Hey,
I have been soaking in the disappointing results that were the Friday Ratings for my current TV Craze 'Fringe' as well as other shows such as 'Supernatural' & 'CSI:NY' and I have to say that the TV industry in America, as much as I love some of its products is a very messed up place.
The networks want us to watch and love their shows but as someone who has gotten much more into TV I find a trepidation in starting anything new until I know I'm getting my time rewarded in watching. Herein lies the problem; if enough people think like me then every show is in danger. And people are beginning and will eventually follow this trend.
Why is it that often the shows which have casual fans tend to score large, these viewers tend to include the people oblivious to the world of TV ratings, leaving the people who actually care about TV in a world where you hate the foundations of the industry you love.
I would much rather, as a fan of Fringe, be enjoying debating about the Pregnancy storyline with other fans or haters without thinking that the show could be killed by falling ratings.
There is a simple truth in the matter, we only need to use a brain cell to see it. There are shows, Fringe, Supernatural currently, or Heroes & Flashforward from last year that have and have had a lot of fans. It's a fact. So why do we rely on a teeny percentage of people within America who have a Nielson box to keep the shows we love on the air.
It is about time that TV Networks realised something. TV is global and that they need to find a way to show original programming to the world. TV is no longer about one country, especially not US TV, when I watch something I then talk about it with people from all over the world, communicate with people from all over the world and read about it from articles written all over the world.
I know that if FOX gave me access to Fringe at 2 in the morning on my computer with adverts, I would watch it. It becomes unfair that we end up not enjoying a show but fearing for it; this a place which will always lead to disappointment, and in our world now will lead to a lot of programming becoming extinct.
Is there a solution? I feel it's simple. The networks should sit back, and open a computer and look. Who should give a f&%k about 1.4 ratings. There's millions of people watching Fringe online worldwide because they don't have access to it, and people nowadays don't like to be defined by being told to watch a TV at this time. Also the internet has created a world where if you don't get it at the same time, you are losing out on the new experience of TV; the articles, the reviews, the world behind the scenes.
So if they give it to us in a way that is useful to them, makes them money and we can watch it when we have the opportunity, online, on TV, who gives a flying monkey; just give it to us. Find a way to create TV programming that lets us know that the time we are willing to give to you is rewarded in return.
I hope this doesn't sound to preachy, it's more of a vent on my part :P (as such, apologies if anything didn't make sense)
But I figured it's a great thing to discuss with people who, like me actually passionately care about this, so please fire away and comment, tweet, facebook, email me if you wish.
I just had a point to make. Consider it made.
Twitter: AdDHarris
Adam
Hope you like my mini-rant/short article.
ReplyDeleteI felt it was something that needed saying. :)
Furthermore, I'd like to add that this whole thing with remaking series from other countries (*cough* Being Human *cough*) is just ridiculous! If they could just let everyone see the originals and air those then networks could help each other or even form partnerships to do that. It's so annoying. =/
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you. As a Supernatural fan, I've become accustomed to living on the bubble. Unfortunately, it all comes down to money in the end. . .why spend money making Fringe when Kitchen Nightmares gets the same ratings for half the budget? Commercials are unfortunately what pays the bills and until the television industry finds an alternative source of funding I don't think anything is going to change. It really is a shame because every year there are shows that are cancelled and shouldn't be while complete crap remains on the air. I don't know what we can do as fans about this. . .
ReplyDeleteBBCA actually airs the original only a few months later so it's even more ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteMy father loves Fringe, but refuses to watch any TV live because of the commercials.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely.
ReplyDeleteI love you!
ReplyDeleteThe problem is: everything depends on that shit thing called money. It doesn't matter if the show is good, what matter is if it gives the network enough money to make it worth being produced.
ReplyDeleteI feel very sad to see Fringe changing its day again. But tell me for what? I was so happy with it on Tuesdays then I got used to it on Thursdays and now this... but obviously Fox is not run by people with brains in their skulls, but safes...
im for Australia, and i know (and hate doing ) but the only way i can watch fringe and be up to date is to watch it online. YES i would prefer to watch it live, i still watch things live if they are avaliable on the net, its just we are behind in fringe and i am hooked. It's sad that with the way that times are changing, they don't take into account thinks like the internet, yes i know they only care about live because of the commericals but a show is being watched by more people than they realise, shouldn't that make a difference?
ReplyDeleteThe whole 'rating system' needs to be tossed. It's antiquated and does not seem to take the internet into account at all. As a Supernatural fan, it annoys me greatly that I know there are thousands of people around the world who love the show, but have no influence at all on whether or not it remains on the air. I live in fear of it being cancelled. Which sucks. Big time.
ReplyDeleteI am from the UK and I rarely even start watching a US show unless I know it has gone for a season or 2 - so you are right that people are not going to invest if they think shows they love are not going to be given time to grow and develop.
ReplyDeleteSPN was nearly cancelled after season 1. What a travesty that would have been.
These ratings are odd though, because there were no winners only losers. Clearly a lot of people just weren't watching TV on Friday. It happens. I'm not too worried for SPN. It is doing better, in a worse time slot, than most of the other shows on the CW, and is pretty certain to be renewed. I have little time for the CW, but at least they don't have huge expectations ratings-wise, and many of their long running shows would have been (unjustifiably) cancelled years ago on the bigger networks.
I agree with the remakes statement you make. Why mess with the originals? They are often the best!
ReplyDeleteTruth of the matter is, there is a way out there where the 100 million + people who downloaded LOST illegally last year could have watched it legally and it would have made ABC or whoever a shit load more of cash, even if just 5 million of them watched it.
ReplyDeleteJust seeing that says somethings flawed, I don't know about Advertising enough to have the answers. But there is one and they need to find it. That way they win and we win. Currently, they win sometimes, we win no times.
Seriously? Lol The entire week sucked rating-wise so why exactly is friday especially disappointing? Fringe and Supernatural only have to do better next week and they're OK.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with you. I watch Fringe via LIVE stream every saturday at lunchtime from australia. I would love for my viewing to count in the ratings. Networks need to realise that tv viewership is global.....and overseas FRINGE fans shouldnt be having to worry about how many U.S viewers are watching Fringe and getting anxious when the ratings come out. We should be allowed to watch the show and ejoy it for what it is. Its simply THE BEST SHOW on tv.
ReplyDelete*applaudes* Agree. But I understand at the same time... Hate it but get it.
ReplyDeleteThat's why almost every show I watch has social networks. It's for the those who are not counted as part of a demographic. I use it to direct my support to the shows I watch, that don't attract the large fan following as the more popular and highly rated shows featured on this site.
ReplyDeleteWhen my favourites are on the bottom 50 of 100 shows, every little cent counts.
haha I just change channels during commercial. (NOT DURING SPN here that PTB) :P
ReplyDeleteWhat burns me is they ONLY count live views, not those who DVR the show and watch later. There are many viewers and serious fans of shows like Fringe who can't watch it at the time it airs, but DO, in fact, watch the show the moment they get home.
ReplyDeleteAshley im from australia and am obsessed by Fringe. I watch it live on staurdays at 1.00pm . Fringe Latino blogsite always has a live link for viewres outside the US. I am ever so greatful to them for doing this. It makes me feel like im contributing in some way to keeping Fringe going!
ReplyDeleteFringe has proven time and time again that it has ratings. The first season did considerably well as a sci-fi newcomer on Tuesday nights. When the second season came around, however, ratings dropped due to their new Thursday night timeslot. Friday night is having the exact same effect. The shows quality has only increased, the reviews have only gotten better, and the fan base has only grown more dedicated. This is clearly shown by high online viewing and PVR numbers. The problem is NOT Fringe. The problem is scheduling. It has been since season 2. The networks have a valuable asset in Fringe, they are just not approaching it properly. It would be a waste to let such an innovative, and profitable show go down the tubes when it has proven it's value in the past. No program has solid ratings in the first season, it takes time to gain momentum, however, rather than let a good thing grow it was put on the back burner to die from the beginning of season 2.
ReplyDeleteTelevision is a business. As a third year Television student with a major in Political Economy of Media I understand that better than most. If something can't profit, it won't be sold. This is why most television networks have moved over to entirely reality TV programming. For a cheap buck. The only cost to them is the last shred of their already tattered integrity. Serialized dramas are quickly becoming a thing of the past because networks are too lazy to promote them and too scared to take a chance.
Fringe was given a chance, but had the rug pulled out from under it just as it was starting to catch it's footing.
End.
Hey Adam, great little rant!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, to address a few issues about Nielsen, I'm going to refer you to this excellent article over on Syfy. As much as Nielsen is pretty strange, statistics are statistics. Still, with technology what it has become in recent years, why is it still a problem to get statistics from the whole country, rather than just Nielsen families?
http://blastr.com/2011/01/the-truth-about-tv-ratings-online-viewing-and-sci-fi-shows.php
Second of all, one point you bring up that people above me in the comments have been latching on to is the whole International aspect of things. I agree that the USA needs to acknowledge that other countries exist. On the other hand, US shows are driven by US advertisers. It's a tricky situation. I'm sure the US makes money from selling channels elsewhere broadcasting rights, but I doubt it goes much further than that.
I, like you, am somewhat of a television cynic. I saw Firefly for the first time as late as last year. The experience was somewhat marred by the knowledge that the 14th episode was the last one. I finally finished Flashforward a few weeks ago and again the experience was a huge disappointment. Not because I disliked the last few episodes, but because I knew that that was the end. The same can be said of Defying Gravity and Pushing Daisies.
LOST, The Wire, Six Feet Under, and I assume Smallville are different because the end has been coming for a while. Being Erica (a Canadian Show) announced that its most recent season will be its last. That's all really wonderful creatively. While I'll miss those shows, knowing that they ended as they should have leaves me satisfied.
I just don't know what I'll do if Fringe is cancelled a few episodes before the end of the season. We all know that more could have come. I'm sure something comicwise will come into existance, but will that make up for a cancellation? Bah, I'm Canadian so I'm stressed about something I have no control over :(.
Yeah and how come only those with a Nielson box decide what stays on the air or not. Everyone that I work with now watches Fringe but none of us have a Nielson box. I don't think I count at all because I watch with antenna and tape the old fashioned way, with VCR and tape. That means I can't even change channel during commercial because it messes up my tape. I can't afford cable or Tivo or whatever else is out there. I do watch it on hulu and have registered with them.
ReplyDeleteYou should sent what you wrote to FOX. If Fringe gets cancelled, I'm selling my TV.
I'm with you all the way!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteRatings should be compiled from information on the cable/sattelite/DVR boxes.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I've seen Fringe; which is just plain NOT good TV.
It really bugs me that Ratings system hasn't really changed much when the world has. You have CBS streaming only shows through their website, but when you watch them you have to watch commercials, no fast-forwarding allowed. Hulu plus is the same way, I have watched that Gieko and a couple of other commercials so many times it's not funny. Those are guaranteed audiences and those should cost just as much as broadcasting live with at least 50% dvr fast forwarding it and another 30% just getting up to go to the bathroom, do dishes, or tweet what they are thinking from the phone or tablet on their lap. If my signal goes out or there is too many shows on the same night I have Hulu, Netflix and Amazon there to back up my show. Not to mention Netflix doesn't have commercials and Amazon you are just paying for an episode here or there.
ReplyDeleteIts a sign of the times and I really need those idiots who aren't watching tv anyway to sit up and take notice.
I'd gladly watch it online from Fringe's site, but once I'm in Brazil and there is this restriction to viewers from abroad, the only way is to watch on stream (when it works).
ReplyDeleteBut I try to keep watching... no matter how, I'll always support good shows like Fringe!
I am not sold on this week's ratings in general being the end-all-be-all of a series' future...
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of what you said other than international fans of American shows. To me it is not touchy at all... they should not count, period. Just like my viewing habits of UK series should not enter into the picture of ratings or renewal chances for UK shows. Now if All networks were FULLY integrated online.. so much so that the shows aired online at the same time as on TV networks... then I could see internet ratings counting, but still not random streaming sites or downloaded video files. By the by, I am all in favor of networks streaming their shows for free online at the same time they on on the network. With internet viewing growing in popularity, I think it is the best "true count" of viewers. All that said... The priority of a series will always be and should be ratings in the country for which the show is made.
Actual in the first season Fringe was right behind American Idol and when it was on it was doing very well but it was also CONSTANTLY put on hiatus because AI had to have their two hour specials. I was relieved to see it move to another night but not happy to see it move to Thursday nights where it had to compete with three veteran shows (CSI, Grey's Anatomy, The Office). So yeah Tuesday night was great for it...but the constant delays in airing were incredibly irritating.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree. My love and enjoyment goes to Supernatural. I have never missed an episode. I want to enjoy, not worry if season 7 is going to happen or not. It's my one passion. I watch very little television. I have no problem if I miss an episode of something else, but I go crazy if I miss my show and have to wait. I seriously do not want to have to worry if the ratings are good or not. Friday night was the first night of The Salute to Supernatural convention in Los Angeles. There's a lot of viewers who were there. The CW needs to consider that Supernatural has a massive world wide following who are buying the products, attending the conventions, and the DVDs, t-shirts, and other items sell like crazy. They are evening going to be releasing the first Japanese anime of Supernatural. Seriously. Let's hope they realize what they do have. I imagine the Fringe fans feel the same way.
ReplyDeleteSince I've been visiting tvbythenumbers.com a lot lately I noticed something in the comments of a Fringe post today. Apparently the head of scheduling for FOX is a big fan of Fringe (not that it means much), but on the FOX twitter feed they were asked if any DVR views actually count for advertising revenue. Surprisingly enough to me, they mentioned advertisers get paid for the Live + 3 Day ratings too so those count, something which Fringe is AWESOME in. The 1.6 from last week increased to a 2.3 after including the +3 ratings, which can't be bad. I still don't know just how much the Live + 3 ratings actually matter or if they have the same overall value but they do consistently prove that about 50% of Fringe's audience ALWAYS DVR's the show. It'd obviously be better if they watched it live but I take some comfort in knowing the show still has about double the audience the Live ratings say they do. Now... it's just a matter of getting those people to watch it live or hoping those +3 ratings mean enough to save Fringe a spot next year.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree with you more. Too often innovative programming gets cancelled over an outdated system for ratings. And yet it continues to happen over and over again. I'd like to know when the upgrade will happen at the Nielson company. They need to get in touch with today's technology.
ReplyDeleteI have been saying all along that shows need to run their course and stop. But no! The money hungry television executives think they're on a good thing and stick to it and in the end we all lose. A prime example is BONES. 7 season and they are thinking of going again? I've been a fan for 6 seasons and for the first time in as many years I have stopped taping the show, editing and keeping a copy. Doesn't this tell you anything? I download all shows, edit them without ads and keep them BEFORE the DVD comes out but this year on Bones "I don't care". To me that means it's over. They are not going to put Bones & Booth together - it's not going to be another Hart to Hart at least for one season so I give up now. I'll buy the DVD set when it comes out and put in on the shelf catching dust with the other six seasons. So many other shows didn't listen and where are they now? Buffy. Angel. Supernatural. Smallville. They all went over their "use by" date and are suffering for it.
ReplyDeleteGet over yourselves POWERS THAT BE and learn that when it's over it's over. Let it go and let it go off with a bang. We were promised a great ending for Supernatural because it was a five year run. I was happy with five years. Six? Not so! Seven? Even worse!
Surely you can come up with some great ideas and prepare for a certain time span and just walk away? No wait, money and commercial advertising are involved so it's never going to happen.
Kris
Melbourne Australia
Unfortunately, the TV industry is run by advertising rates which are calculated by ratings which are calculated by averages. When dealing with genre shows, the averages aren't exactly correct. Since these shows aren't watched by the 'general public' but by a certain type of viewer, the actual ratings can't be judged by the Neilsen system since it's a system designed to calculate the viewing of the general public. So it's not a fair system to genre shows which are lumped in with more generally appealing shows like NCIS and American Idol. But that's the system they have. If they wanted a fair and accurate reading on what shows are truly watched, they could figure out how to tag satellite dish and cable reception, but is that too much of an invasion of privacy to simply get viewer data?
ReplyDeleteI've never met anyone with a Neilsen box, so I can't say for sure they even exist. Has anyone ever seen one or met a "Neilsen Family"? I'd be interested to know if anyone had.
As for computers, the networks don't make money from viewers, so unless they can figure out a way to get advertising dollars for online viewing, they can't consider that a real commodity. Same with DVR's since the majority of people who record admit to skipping commercials. If an advertiser's message isn't being watched, why would they pay money to support a show? It's a give and take society, and unfortunately, the only give we as viewers have is our remote.
Is anyone has a Neilsen Box to sell, I'm interested. :)
For broadcast television, you are not the customer. The advertiser is the customer. If you're in the 18-49 demo (and a few other key demos), you are the product they are buying. That's the cold, hard truth. Online views do NOT matter because the advertisers are not paying for that.
ReplyDeleteIf Fringe gets canceled, I'll miss it a great deal, but it has had 3 full years, and amble opportunity, to tell its story and maintain its audience. Make as many excuses as you want, but it has failed in the latter.
I agree with one point... completely. I think some networks keep shows alive should b gone if not long off the air. If a series (usually a serial series) has a 5 year plan or 3 year plan I think after that plan has ended, the networks should most likely end the series. Some could be reworked and have a new multi-year arc of course, but it should be laid out ahead of time to a large degree. Keeping a series on air after a multi-season arc has completely... or just keeping a series on for too long, waters down the series and makes it a lesser product in general...
ReplyDeleteI also feel the opposite is true. A series that has a a five-year plan should be given every opportunity to execute that plan. Too many shows are cancelled that have solid ratings... even if on the low end. I think that steady, solid fanbase and the show itself should be rewarded by allowing the series to execute its vision. Ignore critics, ignore the 18-49 demographic and simply let a show mature and grow into what it was meant to be. Of course, I understand some series ratings are far too low.... or at least far too low to rationalize spending exorbitant amounts in promotion or on a large budget. In general I think many series cancelled in their first season, or partway through that season, would have succeeded if they were given a proper chance!
Agreed. For me the answer to "Where has TV gone wrong?" is answered with 2 words - reality TV. I hate that because it is so cheap, we are inundated with it and it takes up valuable viewing time for good TV. Who gives Nielsen boxes to the idjits that watch Jersey Shore anyway? Neilsen is outdated. I watch far more commercials when viewing online, mostly because I can't do anything in the 45 seconds it takes to get through them, than I do watching the old-fashioned way. (Chanelle, I also watch the commercials in SPN, but nothing else.) Hopefully, more advertisers will see this as the way of the future and Nielsen can be given the heave ho.
ReplyDeleteGreat thoughts Adam. As your rant hints at, there's so many different factors in play that all contribute to the current TV situation. I'm glad that someone else has mentioned illegal downloading. It drives me a little nuts on principle anyway, but it's just salt in the wound when you think those people have so many legal options to watch a show and be part of the numbers that could help save it. If you care enough to download and watch it, why not choose a legal method and everyone wins?
ReplyDeleteAs far as why shows with casual fans often score big - there's probably a lot more of them than we think there are. I've never seen (in my experience anyway) people who are fans of shows like Jersey Shore or the Real Housewives shows be active, consistent participants on places like STV. We're usually only getting one slice of the argument - that of the hardcore fans, the people who are truly engaged in whatever their fandom may be, which doesn't tend to be shows like those. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot more reality TV fans than we think of or hear from.
My cousins were a Nielsen family when they were in elementary school. They are both now in college. I have gotten weekly logs by Nielsen two times in my life.
ReplyDeleteI illegally downloaded Unforgiven today but only because I bought it on iTunes and although it says Unforgiven was downloaded, it is really Like a Virgin. Since my deadline for getting the recap up is Sunday and the other sites made me start from the beginning whenever I rewound, it was my best option. Urgh, iTunes - why do I pay you.
ReplyDeleteI'm from NZ, and have seen two Nielson boxes: my grandparents got one when I was little and never figured out how to use it, and a flat I lived in had one for a few months: but the company hated us as flatmates rotating in and out. Yet we were the target demographic for a lot of these shows.
ReplyDeleteBeing from NZ we get everything about a year late, so I don't think I've turned my TV on in the last three months. However, I signed up online for a Neilson monitoring system that figures out what I'm doing, anonymously, on my computer. Yes, you can turn it off whenever you want, and I earn 'points' for letting them know I'm watching all the dozen or so shows I download.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't count towards TV ratings or anything, but at least the company is aware that the world is changing, and that there needs to a different way to keep track of, well, reality. Yes, the current system sucks, but there's the old adage about change from the inside, maybe its an option for some others out there....
I have also no other choice than watching Fringe online, but if I could watch it legally, even if it meant getting adverts, I would.
ReplyDeleteTV should realize that only counting the viewers in the USA, is not enough to see if a show actually works.
Your mini-rant is completely right, thanks for sharing!
You should contact someone at iTunes about that if you haven't already. They owe you a refund if they didn't give you what you paid for.
ReplyDeleteWhat sites were you using? I've never heard of having a problem rewinding, but I have frustratingly had ones that hang if I pause for too long,
Possible solution/improvement: let everybody have a nielson box, or at least anyone who wants one. And if so many things people do online are tracked, unknowingly sometimes, why not have nielson tracking online for network sites? If a site can tell that I've already voted in a poll, why can't it tell that I watched one of their shows? With all of the advanced technology in the world today, can't DVR's track what is being watched? I could tolerate more ads in the corners of the screen, even constant ones, if it helped keep my shows on. I could even tolerate a little more blatant product placement if it helped.
ReplyDeleteIf they even think about cancelling Fringe, we should all gather in front of Fox and protest. Our protest signs can have advertisements too, just to be smartasses.
so much agre with u
ReplyDeletewhy our shows should be cancelled coz audiendes in US dont watch
when will they realise that peopleoutside America r more than loyal to the shos and can do anythign to watch it
dont they realise we get up at 6 am in morning just to catch live streaming of supernatural online
they should count online viewers too
I agree with you AdDHarris...I live in Europe,and I've been following SPN since 2007.That's also the year when I started fearing for its survival...Since then,every May or whatever,I've been searching the net like crazy,waiting breathless for a positive piece of news about my favorite show's return...And I have been forced to turn to illegal means in order to watch the newest episodes,because CWTV,com allows only viewers in the US to watch the show...I wouldn't mind watching 7 ads if that enabled me to watch my fav show of all time,but that's how TV is nowadays...BUT,I WANT THIS TO CHANGE!!!!
ReplyDeleteNOTE : I DO buy th season boxets.
Sorry to everyone overseas, but network execs here in the U.S. only care about their demographic, and the same goes for advertisers. It doesn't matter much that a certain show may have 100 million fans worldwide if it only has 1 million fans in the U.S., nor should it. It is all about the almighty dollar, and if they can't get there moneys worth here than it doesn't make sense to them to continue to produce a show, especially when they can make reality crap for less. The Nielson system is stupid, and networks are beginning to realize this, but they will never care too much about worldwide popularity. And to those of you wondering why networks here take foreign shows and remake them. Its quite simple. The vast majority of Americans simply won't watch a foreign made product. Also, most remakes don't work here. That doesn't make it right, but its simply a fact. As a Fringe fan, and also a Chuck fan, I sympathize with those of you out there who fear that their favorite shows may be canceled. But, if you are overseas, understand that your opinion doesn't matter much to American network execs
ReplyDeleteGreat post Adam! The Network PTB's really need to read this one ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm right there with you too. It really sucks that every fan outside US can't do much about their favorite shows and that's something that needs to be changed - and if I could watch Fringe at 3 o'clock in the morning online, I would do it too!
I can fully understand the people that they hate commercials ( Who doesn't? ), and tend to DVR everything, hey I myself got used to watch everything without any break - I never watch TV and just download mostly American TV Shows and some movies.
The networks are also helping their viewers NOT to watch things live - with their Hulu, online streaming on their official site, iTunes ... which of course doesn't "count" as far as the stupid ratings go.
It's very frustrating that we can't simply enjoy Fringe when we fear about the show's future more than about the risky pregnancy storyline...
I read these articles once:
http://io9.com/#!5636210
http://blastr.com/2011/01/the-truth-about-tv-ratings-online-viewing-and-sci-fi-shows.php
and they pretty much suggest that the Nielsen Boxes aren't realible, so how is a TV show's fate decided by this BS?
People need to stop overreacting with Bolivia's pregnancy... The show is amazing, i'm sure the writers do have a plan, which will be worth it in the end... come on fans be positive... Thats the last thing Fringe needs right now.
ReplyDeleteWatch it live if you can :(
powerful stuff Adam
ReplyDeleteWhile I totally agree Adam, the hard fact is that the networks don't make any money out of people in other countries watching the show on an illegal download at 2am. Their business model is not working. These genre shows build a fanbase that may be smaller but is 10x more passionate, committed, younger and more computer savvy than the audiences of more mainstream shows. They have to find a way of turning that into hard cash, or we are always just going to be judged on the bald live ratings alongside shows that people just watch if it they are on, and don't really care about.
ReplyDeleteNielson published a paper very recently (December 2010) on the impact of DVRing which - if the networks and advertisers listen to what it says - should change the way DVRing is viewed to genre shows advantage. The key things it says are (sorry this will make this a long comment);
1) Many people do watch the ads when they playback "Viewers do watch commercials on their DVRs. Among DVR homes, playback lifts commercial ratings by 44% among 18-49s after three days. Among all 18-49 year-old viewers, DVR playback adds 16% to commercial ratings after three days"
2) People who DVR tend to be richer and younger - 2 things very important to advertisers
3) DVR playback has a meaningful effect on ratings "In primetime... DVR playback added almost 7.9 ratings points to TV usage levels in DVR homes"
4) Sci fi / genre shows are by far the most likely types of shows to be DVRed - with the +7 days DVR adding 1.3 ratings points to the average live rating of 2.2 ie an increase of 68% on the live only ratings.
5) Shows that air later get less same day playback - so SPN will always score less here than SV for example "Generally, programs that are broadcast at 8pm are more likely to be played back later the same day (57%), while those that air at 9pm and 10pm are less likely to be played back the same day (45% and 33%, respectively) and more likely to be played back later in the week." That can make quite a difference. Even if both SV and SPN got the same live viewers, and eventually the same live+7d ratings, the live + SD for SV could be 100 to 150,000 higher just because there is more time left in the evening for people to watch their DVR in the SD time window.
This new research might hopefully cause 'the powers that be' to reassess how seriously they take the DVR figures. Doing that would help all sci fi shows.
It seems that people are upset with the networks and how they view Nielsen ratings. In reality, they are merely responding to the companies that advertise on TV. I don't like the networks (looking at you CW), but chances are they know how TV viewing has changed and want to come up with a better system too. After all, they win too when shows stay around longer. What we really need is bold companies willing to think outside the box about TV advertising. I once participated in a survey on Hulu for Wendy's. They were trying to judge if having 6 Wendy's commercials in one Hulu-ed episode increased awareness for their product over traditional commercials on live TV where their commercial had to compete with many other companies. Hopefully, the answer was yes. I thought this was a step in the right direction. My guess is that the networks hate Nielsen as much as we do, but nothing changes until the people buying ads change.
ReplyDeleteI think fans also need to start looking at what is advertised on their favorite "bubble" TV shows. If Pepsi is buying ad time and you don't really care what kind of cola you get, then buy a Pepsi product. If money makes the world go round, then 2 million more people buying a specific product on a specific week is bound to get someone's attention. We just have to make sure that we flood the company with e-mails and FB comments when we do so that they know we support them for supporting our show. It's a far more practical way to support a show on the verge of cancellation than twittering 2 million people, half of which live overseas and don't count ratings-wise, only to reach 2 people with Nielsen boxes who already watch the show.
i agree, i think shows in general shouldn't last over 5 or 6 seasons. usually creativity and innovation drops and they get repetitive.
ReplyDeletei'm from outside the us too and thus can't contribute to the ratings. i still can't fathom why networks (and the music industry, for that matter) haven't taken advantage of the internet! they have an opportunity to expand their markets incredibly and yet they find themselves fighting ilegal downloads.
ReplyDeletethe internet allows us to watch what we want when we want and also, as adam said, to participate in everything surrounding the show (provided that we watch the episodes when they are aired and not a year later when it airs in other countries...), and the networks should be trying to take advantage of that.
I do think that the networks need a new framework for dealing with the audience's desire to see shows when they want, as soon as they can. International distribution via the web has problems. The network would want to integrate advertising that is specific to the country that is receiving the broadcast. An ad for an American fast food chain won't give that advertiser any business from Australia.
ReplyDeleteI do think that allowing access from other regions, with deals with appropriate advertisers is a good idea. Heck, I think that the networks should be working to permit US viewers to view shows on their websites on their big screen TV's not just on the computer. I just purchased a Roku and I have no idea why Fox, CBS, the CW etc. aren't partnering with Roku and the Blueray and Internet connected TV's to allow access to the episodes that the networks stream online with unskippable commercials. If my DVR misses a show I would love to just tune my 47" TV to the right website and watch my show with commercials.
With DVR's, international viewers and the technology for unlicensed downloading so prevalent, the networks and advertisers are going to have to think out of the box to get the messages they want across. The networks also need to think of directly selling episodes internationally as an alternative to advertising revenues. Let Canadian European and Australian viewers get Fringe and Supernatural from ITunes and Amazon on Demand. Let U.S. viewers get shows from other countries the same was as well. Most people want to be law abiding and compensate the networks, and shows for their product. TPTB need to find a way to tap into this and rethink their market strategy.
I totally get it. When Fringe was moved to Friday, I just about freaked out! I know FOX says they're trying to bring Friday nights back to life, but I fear for my favorite show every week!
ReplyDeleteAnd they can't just do they're ratings on the fact that its only been released here, because in a few months the episode will be released in Australia and Europe and THEN they can do their ratings. not to mention all the people around thw world who find it online long before its released where they live!
When it comes down to it, the rating an episode gets at the end of the week means nothing, Its what the fans say about it on Saturday morning!
Totally agree with you. I'm getting tired of all the negative stuff. Fringe is an amazing show and needs to stay on the air.
ReplyDeleteAgree! TV viewers, TV shows, commercials, how we watch TV has come into the 21st century no problem...however the ratings system is still in the 20th (around 1950s). Advertisers know how to promote their product in the information age, yet networks can't figure it out. Also with the ratings system doesn't take into consideration the demographic changes in the last 25 years or the fact that the coveted 18-49 year old group is being outpaced by the over 60 boomers who have a lot more income then the 18-49 year olds even in economic hardtimes, and the fact that people watch online all over the world.
ReplyDeleteSo until the networks and ratings can get their heads out of their butts we will always be on the edge of our seats worrying if our favorite shows are going to get canceled. And I don't see change coming anytime soon.
I've also become very frustrated in the last few years over the number of shows that I liked that got cancelled - in many cases prematurely IMO. I understand that the majority of people like watching shows like reality and cop dramas and the networks want to make money. The audience watches what they like and I can't fault them for that.
ReplyDeleteBut with other types of media, such as publishing, the growth of the Internet made it possible for a lot of niche programming to find an audience and flourish with cheaper overhead. I'm not sure why that's not the case with TV shows. I don't know enough about the industry, so I'm not sure if it's the cost of production, or something to do with cable licensing fees and the Verizon/Comcast duopoly, but I think the answer has to lie in new technology and developing alternative programming models.
American advertisers make money in the Canadian market. The bulk of products sold are available in both countries.
ReplyDeleteI want to marry this entire post. Seriously.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. Every time they began to gain momentum in the ratings they'd get another month long hiatus. Just enough time for new viewers to forget about it.
ReplyDeleteBecause it doesn't star the Kardashian sisters?
ReplyDeleteJust thought I'd say Thanks for the huge response I've had here and on Twitter for the article, I've never gained so many friends on there in one day :P
ReplyDeleteHopefully we can all, as TV Watchers, find a way to make TV a better experience :)
Agreed :). Especially in regards to illegal downloads. Who in their right minds with the internet existing and all is going to wait months for it to air in their country. Canada gets simulcasts, which is wonderful for me :), but most other countries don't. Obviously, with hulu and broadcast network sites shutting them out, they are going to go the illegal download route. They need to do something to A) appease and B) take advantage of those foreign markets. It's a win-win situation!
ReplyDeleteExcept that Canada doesn't get the American adds. When we watch House on Fox, we're actually watching it on Global. Canadians get terrible/normal advertising during the SuperBowl specifically because we aren't the American market. While many products are available in both countries, that just isn't how things work.
ReplyDeleteOn top of that, the same product doesn't mean the same people benefit from its sales. For example, when Blockbuster recently went under in the States, Blockbuster in Canada is perfectly fine and unaffected.
I'm late to the discussion, but i agree with you 100%! It's about time tv networks realize that the times are changing, that people spend more time online, than watching tv! I for one, do not watch tv! I live overseas. I can't contribute to Fringe's ratings, and it absolutely kills me. What i do, is to blog the hell out of it, get the word out to people, buy the dvd's, tweet it. But then, some americans - i apologize to any who's not like that - act exactly like these narrow minded network execs. Xenophobes who can't see beyond U.S. Something else they need to realize: There's a whole world out there, and we are customers. And to be honest, international viewers are extremely dedicated, and it seems like we are more deserving of their shows, since we stay up late to stream it and download it, cause otherwise we sit and wait until our country airs the show, and all the hype is over. For the record: i buy Fringe dvd's as soon as they release in my country. It's disgusting how hulu and official sites act like we are invisible. It's their loss. If they love their money so much, REALIZE.
ReplyDeleteOne thing those bastards need to notice is that in this day and age thinks like PVR (or DVR or whatever) should count, as well as ONLINE viewing. I hate when American shows have such huge followings in other parts of the world (take T:TSCC, it was huge in England and Japan) but it doesn't matter. Why shouldn't it matter?! Those are still fans who buy the seasons and products!
ReplyDeleteEveryone should have some say!
I agree. And the fact that shows like American Idol top quality shows like Lost, Supernatural, The Shield etc, proves that people who run this business don't care about quality and talented writing. The show can be about two breakdancing radioactive monkeys, as long as it brings in viewers. That is why it's the worst combo. Creative people and business people do not match! But creative folks need business people's money to create their work and business people need creative folk's work to make more money. And so this struggle for the REAL TV continues as most of the people behind TV are idiots and much rather destroy their brain cells on trash shows like American Idol and since there are so many of them, business people love them.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest of us who appreciate quality tv, we have to fear for the necks of our shows as not many of us watch shows like Fringe from live tv which is why bringing TV series to the internet would be perfect.
I am from Estonia (for who may not know where it is, lets just say it's probably pretty far away from You!) and quite frankly if they would air Supernatural online, I'd watch it despite it being 4 am on saturday morning over here then :)
Sorry if explanation ran off the trail :P , another + for AD Harris for another good article. cheers!
See, you're missing my point. I don't watch the Kardashians because none of them have any real talent, much like the Fringe cast.
ReplyDeleteFan baiting is not permitted here.
ReplyDeleteI've read that Kiefer Sutherland said on numerous ocassions that 24 may have been cancelled in its 1st Season only for its popularity in the UK. I personally hope that studio execs are looking at the popularity of Fringe on other Markets, even the illegal downloads show that its popular across many download sites.
ReplyDeleteHeres a way that studios can see how popular a show is on foreign markets, is to stream it live across the world on internet or next day (one way of stopping illegal downloads), id guarantee that they'd change their minds on cancelling shows. they could do it with advertisements pertinent to the countries watching. it also would be another way of gaining revenue.
ReplyDeleteThey could do it on a test basis
Yeah. It's a dilemma, the trouble is people don't want to wait for their own country to air the shows anymore. Heck, when LOST aired, it was like a day behind at some points, I couldn't even wait that long. I woke up, and I watched it.
ReplyDeletePlus I didn't have Sky at Uni :P
Well that's true I never thought of that.
ReplyDeleteYep, same here for Lost.
ReplyDeleteThey certainly need to do something different. The current model they
use simply isn't working lol
See, now that's the problem. The Networks make millions selling their
ReplyDeleteshows to other countries. If it was streamed the other countries would
ask for massive discounts.
listen the problem here is the fox executives they messed up bigtime.. Season one of fringe was shown on tuesday and was getting up to 10 million viewers then for some reason known only to them they decided to move the program to thursdays one of the toughest nights in the usa.Now they move it to friday so if fringe gets cancelled its kevin reilly and the execs at fox for playing around with a winning formula.I am in the uk so nothing much i do can change us viewing habits but these people suck!!!
ReplyDeleteI often choose not to watch a new show when it "looks" like it'll be cancelled sooner than later. It's pretty normal for me to start watching a tv show only after checking ratings and probably during the second season, unless it's an obvious new hit like Hawaii 5-0, or a spin-off, like NCIS, because the industry is too unpredictable.
ReplyDeleteI'd like the US media to think well of something better to do. I'm totally cool with watching US ads. They're surprisingly different from Brazil's, although most times they're offering the same products or services. Maybe giving a few breaks for local ads, idk. Just *do* something! As you said, there are MILLIONS of online fans who simply aren't counted, but they're not worse than an American one. We the foreign fans prove that their shows have a much broader range than TPTB can think of.
I don't even know what is a Nielson box.
ReplyDeleteActually, I sort of memorized the average break time for each channel I watch the most. So I know when to come back to the channel I'm actually watching after those annoying commercials. Especially Polishop Ads.
ReplyDeletestream videos are awful, their image is distorted and the audio is inaudible. i only use those when I'm *really* desperate. LOL
ReplyDeletesometimes, even longer than a year... Brazil's three years later on Numb3rs.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you had to say Adam! I loved Fringe and
ReplyDeleteseveral of the shows you mentioned. I think this biggest culprit of shows being
cancelled is not just the Nielsen box, but the A.D.D. of the network
programmers.
Just when you get use to where a show is scheduled and you set up your recorded
to save it, they go and move the show to another night, usually during the time
of another show you like. Or they send it to weekend purgatory, where it
starts to lose viewership, because people are out for the night.
The Internet does give us the option to watch TV shows anytime we want.
Do they keep track of the views made through all the technology alternatives,
you would think so, but my guess is no. I even believe that when there is
a strong audience and loyal following for a show, if the network is bent on
making room for a new show on next year’s roster they will send a favorite show
to cancellation jail and we will see it slowly slip away.
The days of giving shows a chance to build an audience, think Seinfeld, Cheers
and Friends. All of these shows had slow starts, but eventually became
juggernauts in the rating game.