Stargate Universe isn't doing well in the ratings. Pleas from fans, actors, and producers alike have been sent out in hopes that there can be an upturn, else the fear is that a cancellation may be on the horizon. It seems tensions are running high, as evidenced by co-creator and executive producer Brad Wright's recent comment that puts the blame not on the product itself, but on the shoulders of former fans of the franchise."I don’t think if we for any reason go away, it is an issue necessarily of the quality of the product that we’ve been making. I think getting moved on the schedule has hurt us. And the fact that some of the fans that liked SG-1 and Atlantis were so angry that they have deliberately hurt us, which is unfortunate." ~ Brad Wright
This is perhaps a situation where franchise loyalty is expected to win out over show loyalty, but should that be the case? Just because you're a fan of one or two shows in a franchise does not mean that you'll necessarily be a fan of them all. It's all about individual taste rather than the name you place on the product. And if some fans have come to expect a certain level from the franchise name, yet the new entry doesn't fit with that, are they not allowed to voice their opinions?
From my own viewing habits, I was never a regular viewer of Stargate SG1. The Earth-bound nature of a space show wasn't something I rushed to see week to week. So, when a new series in the franchise was announced, it wasn't even on my radar. And I was not about to catch up on almost 10 years of show canon just to watch a spin-off. But then I caught a re-run of Stargate Atlantis and was instantly hooked. This wasn't the same Stargate as before. For one thing, they weren't Earth-bound. Plus, these characters were, quite frankly, the rejects of the SGC...and I loved them! I like seeing this type of character dynamic, mixed in with humor, in an unknown world that is far away from Earth. When Atlantis came to an end and the new Stargate Universe began, I gave it a chance. What I found was that it just didn't appeal to me. I found no commonality or likability with any of the characters and for me that's a key in my viewing. Plus, I like my sci-fi a bit lighter, while Universe was gearing towards darker themes reminiscent of Battlestar Galactica. So, the show hasn't been on my to-watch list and I've thought no more about it. Many shows have gone through the same selection process when I'm trying to determine my weekly viewing schedule. If a show catches my interest, I watch. If a show loses my interest, I don't watch. Just because it has the Stargate title doesn't mean I'm going to necessarily be a viewer.
To use another example, I'm a long-time Star Trek fan. The Original Series was way before my time, but the repeats made me fall in love with the characters when I was very young. I'd gladly spend a Saturday afternoon watching an episode or reading one of my many Star Trek novels. When The Next Generation came along, I watched it. Sure, it was different, but it was a new generation that fit with what I loved in the original series. It certainly didn't hurt that many of the original crew turned up as guest stars. Then there was Deep Space Nine. I tried it out, but it didn't hold my interest. It was a bit too stationary and a bit too dark. Did that mean DS9 was a horrible show? No, it just meant I wasn't their core audience. And it didn't mean I was giving up on the franchise either, since I enjoyed both Voyager and Enterprise. Each of these shows attracted an audience, but not necessarily the same one.
Instead of blaming fans of former shows in the franchise, perhaps Stargate producers should focus on the market they're trying to cater to. They can write the best show ever, in their opinion, but if nobody's watching it, then it's not going to make an impact. I wish the current Stargate series the best of luck with its core market. I'm just not a part of that.
Exactly this! #sga #sg1 #sgu
ReplyDeleteIt's all about core audience. Determine who you're writing for and then do it. Everyone's not going to be your core audience.
ReplyDeleteWright is exactly right. But they should have expected some hate when cancelling the successful and popular SGA early. Wright and 'company' were explicit with what Universe was but they were still "stealing/taking" something from their own fans with SGA demise. Sad times as I love all SG and am liking Universe more and more.
ReplyDeleteThere were indeed hurt feelings among SGA fans because of the early cancellation of the show, and yes that may have influenced their decision to not watch SGU. However, they should not be expected to watch SGU simply because it carries the Stargate name. It's a bad situation on both sides.
ReplyDeleteSGU producers need to put the blame on their own shoulders. UNEVEN writing the first season turned a lot of people off and a lack of clear direction has plagued the show from day one. This week- well into season 2- we finally have a purpose for these people to embrace DESTINY ( the name of their ship) and its true mission as their own instead of whining about wanting to go home. I hate the trips home and find them boring and contribute nothing to the show. The best episodes are ones that are focused on the ship and the journey of the folks on board. I want to know more about my main characters in the context of what they are doing to help make every day in space better- not about their loved ones back on earth.
ReplyDeleteThis season started strong with the Lucian Alliance and has now drifted. I really could care less about Camille and her home life. An HR manager is not who I would ever trust my life to- why is anyone else listening to her? If I need help figuring out my health insurance premiums I will be sure to ask her.....what to do when an alien craft comes into our orbit? That is a military decision that should come after some basic safety assessments.
Its time for another chapter. How about SG-2? Things are heating up in the Milky Way- let Rush and company travel along and open a new chapter back home. Syfy cut Caprica loose to move on to the cylon wars in a new BSG series. We can call SGU a short series and move on. Fans love the franchise- but what makes the franchise are the characters. Poor writing has hindered character development and not allowed fans to attach to the SGU crew the way we did with SG-1 and SGA.
I definitely need a connection to the characters in whatever show I'm watching and I just couldn't find that in SGU. I just can't make a franchise-wide decision to love everything associated with a certain name. I judge each venture by its own merits.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has watched every episode of every SG, I have to agree with you when you say "I found no commonality or likability with any of the characters and for me that's a key in my viewing." Despite hating all the characters at the beginning, I stuck it out and the show has slowly but surely been getting better. Now that it is just starting to turn into a decent show, it will get the axe.
ReplyDeleteThe first few episodes got a ton of viewers, and I really can't blame them for giving up on the show. Awful characters and the focus was on how much they hated each other and problems with their incredibly boring families back on earth. The sci-fi was almost non-existant. I can't imagine who they were trying to target with the first 10 episodes, but it certainly wasn't the typical SG fan.
I think not identifying who was indeed their core audience, as well as unfocused writing, hurt them initially. And a show's viewership is often based on those beginning eps, in order to create a basis of "this is what the show's all about...go from there."
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has never seen an episode of SG-1, but has seen almost all the episodes of SGA, I don't feel honor bound to watch SGU simply because it's a Stargate show. I pick my TV shows based on personal preference, not franchise loyalty.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Wright doesn't have a reason to blame SGA and SG-1 fans for the possible cancellation of SGU. SGU is in its second season now. If SGA fans were really to blame, the show would never have made it beyond a few eps. If the viewing numbers are really dropping off now, in the second season, that's the fault of the show itself, not the fans of the rest of the franchise. For the sake of the people involved, I am sorry the show might be cancelled. But that is not my fault, or the fault of any other SGA fan.
That's exactly right. Passing the blame to an audience that was said not to be the core audience for this venture seems perplexing to me. Instead, they should focus on making sure they retain their current audience with strong writing, good characters, interesting plot, etc.
ReplyDeleteComing from a slightly different track.... I'm a relatively indifferent (or at least fickle) viewer. I'm a fan as long as the story-line is interesting & the characters have great chemistry & intrigue me, but I'm generally not obsessively attached to my TV. That said, I haven't been able to sit through a complete episode of SGU, which has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings towards the other shows in the franchise. Although, I will admit that the cancellation of SGA, which was, I felt, an excellent show with great character interaction & interesting story-lines, has made me leery of making that connection with SGU just for the fact that I feel that that show, too, will get canceled once the writers, producers, what-have-you become bored with the show. How else do they expect their prospective viewers to feel? It's bad enough when a show gets canceled due to station incompetence.... After past experiences with such shows as Birds of Prey & Firefly, what happened with SGA was a rude wake-up call from an unexpected source. Which really just means that if Wright et.al. want to get my viewership & keep it, they're going to have to do something about the fact that I'm struggling to sit & watch SGU up to the 2nd commercial break. Although, really, the problem with their show is that they made, at best, a weak connection by the end of the 1st episode in the show, and the 2nd did not...'set the hook' if you will. If they can't hook their viewers by the end of the 2nd episode, they've got problems, IMO. Problems that have absolutely nothing to do with either SGA or SG-1 fans & their disenchantment with the Stargate PTB.
ReplyDeleteIf the producers of Stargate Universe wanted to write a successful character-based, drama-centric TV show, they should have come up with a completely new storyline instead of shoving it into the Stargate franchise. One of the biggest problems with the show is that it has a very interesting premise, firmly rooted in Stargate mythology, so fans of SG1 and Atlantis who had been waiting with bated breath to discover what the purpose of the ninth chevron was came to it expecting fast-paced, engaging storylines like the ones they had been used to in the first two series, not to mention the humor we've always enjoyed from Stargate. It's the stark contrast between the two worlds that has doomed SGU from the start. The kind of people who enjoyed Stargate SG1 are not the kind of people who enjoy shows like Stargate Universe. It's as simple as that. By slapping a Stargate label on Universe, the producers were simply putting bait out for an angry mob of Stargate fans. It was a really stupid idea.
ReplyDeleteAnd the fact is, Wright and Mallozzi and whoever else writes this show simply aren't good at the dark character drama genre. Their talents lie in the area of lighter, more family-oriented programs like SG1 and SGA. Unfortunately, their egos are so enormous that no one can correct them. They'll keep blindly ignoring their viewers and churning out SGU until they've run the entire Stargate franchise into the ground. Which is a shame, since lately the episodes have been rather good (Cloverdale being an exception), but only because they've started to get a little more like the other Stargate series. It's a lose-lose situation. I really hope Stargate can recover from this impending tragedy. Maybe if Wright and Mallozzi finally got to work on those SG1 and SGA movies...
A very good assessment. I completely agree.
ReplyDeleteExactly! The producers should make up their mind already. Space opera or soap opera?
ReplyDelete"If they can't hook their viewers by the end of the 2nd episode, they've got problems, IMO."
ReplyDeleteYes, those first few eps are the introduction of this new show's set-up. You've got to hook your viewers early on with good writing, interesting characters, etc. If a show is interesting, viewers will come back. If it's not...then, you have a problem that's internal.
I've never been a fan of dark sci-fi, so I'm not the ideal viewer for this show. I tried, but it just wasn't for me. There are plenty of viewers who do indeed like that genre, so there is a market out there, but even they won't stick around if the show's not interesting and well-written. Maybe SGU is finding its footing now, but it may sadly be too little too late.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that there has been a very small group of the fandom that has set out to hurt SGU because they blame the show for SGA's cancellation (and according to SGA producer Joe Mallozzi, this is not the case as they had plans for SGU before they even knew SGA was cancelled). This is the group to which they refer to when they talk about fans hurting the franchise. However, I do not think that this group is big enough to really do any damage to SGU. I agree with the statement concerning likeable characters. I still watch SGU, but not with the same enthusiasm as SG1 and SGA and that is mainly because I feel no connection to any of the characters. I didn't even start watching SG1 and SGA until after they were canceled, so it has nothing to do with any resentment for SGU.
ReplyDelete@bluebox--The Stargate producers haven't been neglecting the SG1 and SGA movies. MGM is going bankrupt and has been locked in disputes about that for awhile now. They finally have a deal with Spyglass and have started greenlighting projects, so there is still hope for the movies (as Brad Wright discussed in a recent interview). Check out www.stargatemoviescampaign.com for more info on the movies and the fight to get them greenlit.
I came to stargate atlantas very late and came to love It.I consider myself a SG1 and atlantas fan but I can't
ReplyDeletestand Universe.I quit watching early In season 1.I watched the 3 part season 1 finale because of rhona Mitra.
But I was so bored with the season 2 premiere I don't even care anymore about It.The producers made a show
that Isn't really a stargate show.The stargate Is hardly used.I will watch any Sg1 and atlantas DVD films that
get made but no more Universe.I am classic Star Trek fan.To me that Is the best.the best spinoff was DS9.
I can't watch Galcatica or Caprica as a fan of original Galactica.Universe does not have following SG1 or atlantas have.Which says a lot right there.
The writers decided to take SGU in a whole new direction. Sadly, they didn't have a firm grasp of what the direction was when they started, which hindered their ability to garner viewership that stuck around.
ReplyDeleteIf they hadn't wasted an entire season on Mirror Universe Star Trek Voyager nonsense instead of getting right to the point of what the ship was for and what the crew's mission is, the show might have had a fighting chance. What was Season One all about, anyway? What was the point?
ReplyDeleteVery well put. If two shows have nothing more in common than a name, that name will not automatically generate positive fan reaction. The new show has to have something to offer viewers in order to keep them tuning in.
ReplyDeleteI remember Brad Wright et al specifically stating that they were developing SGU for a different demographic. Why then are they surprised that the demographic that liked SGA doesn't, in general, like SGU?
My SG history is that I thoroughly enjoyed the first 4 - 5 seasons of SG-1, was only mildly interested in the later seasons. (I find that Sci-Fi's heavy-handed storytelling eventually degrades even the best shows.) SGA did not attract me from the beginning but, after catching the odd rerun (and reading fanfic from favorite authors), I developed a strong appreciation for it.
BUT! The development of SGU was intended to aim for the "darker, grittier" side of story-telling; I saw it explained as Stargate crossed with Battlestar Gallactica. I do not like dark or gritty in any of my TV-viewing; I didn't care to watch BSG, and I don't watch Vampire Diaries. Even the crime dramas I watch are the lighter end of the spectrum; too much realism does not make for a relaxing evening. Therefore, whether or not I was angry about the cancellation of SGA, there was no draw to induce me to give SGU a trial viewing.
For the record, yes, I was pissed. I think one reason SGA was well-accepted was that it ran in conjunction with the final seasons of SG1. (Two years? Three? I forget.) There was no perception (regardless of accuracy) that one show was kicked out to make room for the next. With that, it was proved that the fan-base could and would support two shows in the same franchise. I think if they had developed and introduced SGU while keeping SGA for another season or two, the fan-base that they so casually dismissed would have been more willing to give SGU a trial run.
My BFF, who doesn't have my automatic antipathy has tried to like SGU; she and her husband both like SciFi as a genre, and she tends to enjoy much darker story-telling than I do. But even she has dropped the show in frustration; she finds the plots convoluted and difficult to follow, and can't develop a 'connection' with any of the characters. We both agree that if you don't like at least some of the characters, there's no reason to keep watching.
Again, this was what Brad Wright et al intended; the hype before SGU aired was that the characters would be "flawed", and rather "unlikeable". But, surprise! People don't necessarily want to watch unlikeable characters.
So: Brad Wright deliberately went for a different demographic, deliberately developed a 'darker' show (IE, not as attractive to the average viewer), deliberately developed 'unlikeable' characters.
But it's the defection of former fans that is causing this "stupendous new offering" [/sarcasm] to tank in the ratings? Y'know, I work with fourth-graders who have better reasoning skills than that.
LOL, seriously? Where is this magical cabal of SGA fans who have "set out to hurt SGU"? Prove your allegations or stop spreading lies that have been fed to you by the producers to spin why their show is tanking.
ReplyDeleteI was pissed at how they treated SGA fans when they canceled the show, which they promised wouldn't be canceled. I was pissed that they announced SGU in the wake of SGA's cancellation and seemed gleeful that they didn't have to bother with SGA. I was pissed at their behavior and comments about SGA fans not mattering (oh, so suddenly we matter now that they need viewers, I don't freaking think so.) They let Seasons 4 and 5 of SGA languish in the writing and directing departments because they wanted to make SGU and just didn't care about SGA anymore. I also didn't appreciate that as a fan, I was basically told that my money and time didn't matter to them because I was a woman and I wasn't in their 18-35 male target audience. It's just one more way for them to be patriarchal, homophobic douchebags with their old boys club.
So your assertion that SGA wasn't canceled in favor of SGU is dead wrong. They pushed Sci-Fi and MGM to take SGU, promising ratings and edgy content and savings (it was supposed to be cheaper to make than SGA, you know, but has ended up costing twice as much per episode). Even though SGA was strong in the ratings, TPTB were done with it and wanted to move on to their shiny new toy. They engendered SGA's cancellation by disowning it and offering a theoretically better, darker, more popular show which they don't have the talent or wherewithal to actually deliver.
Also, can you please explain how they plan to make an SGA movie now that TPTB have trashed all the sets and the leftovers have been snatched up by Propworx for sale at auction? Perhaps they'll use their magical CGI to recreate every set? I'm sure that won't be too expensive for bankrupt MGM to finance, considering CGI rendering is the main reason SGU costs twice as much as SGA. And how do you think they plan to make an SGA movie now that they've alienated half the cast? Joe Mallozzi in particular hates Joe Flanigan and has treated him with disrespect and condescension in both public and private - he even snubbed him by ignoring him in the Atlantis goodbye video. Do you really think Joe Flanigan is coming back for a movie made by these people? Have you read any of his comments from conventions? I think not. And an SGA movie without Sheppard wouldn't be an SGA movie.
I don't owe Joe Mallozzi or Brad Wright anything. I never did. They've treated fans and actors like crap, insulting and belittling people because they thought they could get away with it. Well, too bad. They screwed up in a million different ways and they're going to have to take their lumps like big boys, like the producers of multimillion dollar internationally syndicated television shows they are, not like the whiny babies they're pretending to be.
Well, of course, no one is forced to watch SGU, it is tv entertaiment, so what a big deal :) It is also clear that SGU is not everyone's poison, so it is understandable that part of old fans turned off.
ReplyDeleteHowever, what brothers and troubles me is negativity I hear from them every day. If you don't like it, make a statement and be done with it. But please don't damage it for us who enjoy the show. Yes, it propably won't make it into S3. Yes, there are mistakes made. No, I still think it was worth it.
So in my opinion Brad is saying that old SGers who disagree with direction of SGU not only ignore it, but blame it for SGA cancellation and try absolutely everything to damage SGU reputation, spreading their anger around. SGU S1 was met with regular predictions of cancellation. Gateworld forums is full of statements 'I don't like it, I'm done with it' from same people over and over again.
I loved SG-1 but I never was a fan of SGA. The whole thing about Atlantis was just not my cup of tea. But of course, I give it a chance because it was a Stargate show. That's what you get when you're part of a franchise, a chance from the fans, not a person whatching everything attached with the name. It also didn't help when the producers/ writers treated their fans like crap. After Supernatural or Lost's controversial episode last year, not once did a hear a bad word from Eric Kripke or Damon and Carlton and some fans were very mean online. Me too! lol They only said they wished all fans would like it but they could only write what they thought would be best, now compare this to the SGU writers who blame the fans for bad ratings and for being stupid to not understand the new Stargate show.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that people don't get the show, most fans understand very well that it's not the same as SG-1 or SGA but I watched a couple of SGU episodes and .... I was underwhelmed. I don't see anything unique in it. No strong characters, no great writing...Just saying it's gonna be darker and more serialized than the previous Stargate shows is not enough. It has to be a good show on its own and I just don't see it. I saw a Stargate show trying to be BSG but failing in story and character development.
Exactly. And if they loose old fans (me) why blame them? They should focus on creating the best show they can and try to win over new fans.
ReplyDeletePeople like to talk and there is negative stuff about ALL shows online. So what you're saying is that it's damaging for the Stargate franchise that there are more older fans talking negatively about SGU than there are SGU fans adoring the show? That's bad but not the fault of the fans. Most fans have moved on or the ratings would be higher. Fans don't want to dislike the show but they do and some fans just like to talk and vent. That's all. I don't see any damage in this. The show will get cancelled due to bad ratings and not due to the bad online reputation. And who says that there won't be another Stargate show after this? Maybe finally there will be more new people involved in the show and I see how that could bug the current producers/writers since they couldn't make SGU a success but to me that idea doesn't so bad.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more. I'll admit that I was mad as h*ll when SGA was canceled and, at first, swore that I'd never watch so much as a minute of Universe. However, I have this pet peeve with people who condemn books/movies/tv shows outright without ever giving said book/movie/tv show a chance. I caved and tried to watch the SGU pilot. I wanted to like this new show from the Stargate franchise but it never did engage me like SG1 or SGA did. I don't watch copious amounts of "current" tv. Most of the shows I watch aren't in production anymore (eg The Invisible Man, Farscape, the British Coupling, Highlander, SeaQuest, Forever Knight, SG1 & SGA just to name a sampling) so I'm discriminating in my following/being a fan of shows currently on the air/in production. Anyway, I *wanted* to like SGU, I really did. At the time I figured any Stargate show was better than NO Stargate show. I tried a number of times to watch the pilot before switching to the 2nd and eventually 3rd episodes. I couldn't even make myself watch a whole episode. My opinion didn't change and still hasn't changed. I have a couple of fundamental problems with aspects of the show but I still gave it a shot. I'd even considered giving season 1.0 another go 'round...until I read Brad Wright's blaming fans of SG1 and SGA for SGU's failing ratings. If Wright and Co. had written a better quality show with engaging characters and a cohesive plot, their ratings would be better. Blaming us is not a way to win us over to watch SGU, Mr. Wright et all. It just upsets and alienates us even more.
ReplyDeleteClaudia, thinking that there will be another SG if SGU fails is a pipe dream. Franchise will be done. For tv and producers SGU *is* Stargate right now, right here. If it doesn't fly, SGA and SG-1 movies won't. Another SGA restart won't.
ReplyDeleteIt is online age and lot of people make decisions on reading online chatter. Anger against SGU/SGA decision still spills over there and here. It creates background for lot of decisions to give or not to give SGU a chance.
Of course, it remains to be unknown how big this impact are. But impact there is, that's for sure.
I have to agree. SG1 and SGA are my favorite shows of all times, but I didn't connect to SGU- it is not funny,light like the other two- its dark and heavy and I just didn't like it!
ReplyDeleteMy reaction to SGU is very much like yours. I enjoyed the original Stargate movie, and watched SG-1 for about 2.5 seasons but got bored and then didn't watch it regularly; just when it was on and I needed something to watch. A friend showed me Rising when I went to visit and was hooked... I didn't miss a single episode. There were some I didn't like, but I bought all the DVDs and if they issue them on Blu-Ray then I will definitely buy them. I was bitterly disappointed when it was cancelled. I watched the first episodes of SGU and hated it. As with BSG, I loved the original Starbuck and Apollo (I've met both Dirk Benedict and Richard Hatch) and hated the remake.
ReplyDeleteIt boils down to: If I like the show I will watch it, If I don't like it, I don't watch it...
Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself!
ReplyDeleteNormally, even when I read the synopsis of a new show and it it is not very attractive, I normally give it a try and watch three or four episodes before quitting. But, as a fan of SGA, its early cancellation REALLY hurt my feelings about the network and, when I read the synopsis for SGU, it really didn't catch my attention.
ReplyDeleteThey promised an SGA movie and gave us a crappy spin-off. I want this Wright dude to go to heck with this i-blame-the-audiences cr*p. Just feel sorry for the bunch of people who will loose their jobs for it. =/
I would like to point out Brad Wright's statement in Joe Mallozzi's blog on January 2, 2009 in response to a SGA/SG1 fan who asked:
ReplyDelete“Were you surprised by the reaction of fans to the announcement of the cancellation of SGA and the start-up of SGU?”
BW: No. You guys are actually pretty predictable (take no offense, most fan groups are). Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success.
Wright does not appear that he cared or wanted former Stargate fans in his viewing audience, since he was going in a whole new direction. Since we are not part of that (even though some of us tried, despite not being seen as the target market), we are not watching anymore for a number of reasons. He failed to build a core audience early on that did not pull from the (now lost) demographic and the numbers are showing that.
The writing early on in the series had to be strong to set up this new direction, but I just didn't see that coming through. As I've said many times, I judge my viewing on the writing, the plot, and the characters. If none of those draw me in, then I'm going to be moving on to another show.
ReplyDeletePS: Nice to see a fellow SPN fan :)
Come on, they can't expect every fan of the franchise to site and watch a whole season with the promise of a good storyline in the future! People say it is getting better now, on the second season! I'm not that patient, honestly.
ReplyDeleteI think it still comes back to internal vs external problems. The strength of the show should be its own merits and if the writing, characters, and plot are solid, then viewers will watch. If it's not, then you have dwindling numbers and eventually cancellation.
ReplyDeleteDark sci-fi was never something I was drawn to. I like a lighter aspect of the genre. But if a show, outside my normal genre viewing, has a good plot/writing/characters, I'll watch. This just wasn't that show.
ReplyDelete"It boils down to: If I like the show I will watch it, If I don't like it, I don't watch it..."
ReplyDeleteExactly! I judge each media venture on its own merits, not on what name is attached.
I didn't know most of what you just wrote! Because I started watching SGA like three months before they aired the last episode, but it was long enough for me to fall in love with it.
ReplyDeleteWhere can I find those comments from conventions attended by Joe Flannigan? I'm really interested!
I love SGu. Of course it has its bad episodes and good episodes, but its way better than anything in sga or last 6 seasons of SG1.
ReplyDeleteI got bored with SGA after the first season (which was somewhat bearable because of more serious tone and fallible characters, but it got to its usual cheese with season2), I dropped SG1 after we got magic wizard aliens known as anubis and ascended ancients....
However, I like what I see in SGU. It brought the fresh feel this franchise needed. it stripped away the cheese and it got rid of Mary Sue character casting.
SGU alongside Haven and Caprica are pretty much the only shows I care that are on SYFY. Caprica was an awesome masterpiece of science fiction and syfy managed to cancel it anyway. Then again looking back, BSG got its two seasons merged into one, as soon as it got into substantial and fascinating storylines and character conflicts....
I guess your generic "scifi" fan expects science fiction to run like a superhero comic book, with unrealistic aliens, random technobabble and infallible heroes, but thats not scifi. Thats pulp scifi.
Let's hope the blind fans of stargate chesselantis do not bring down this show too
I just want the scifi I watch to be actual challenging and interesting scifi and not cheesetastic overtop comic book material that SGA was.
And you are the demographic that Brad Wright is trying to write towards. There needs to be more like you for the show to survive, without the blame being placed on fans of former ventures in the franchise.
ReplyDelete"Whiny" is a very apt term for them.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know that about Wright and Flanigan, either. I do know that the producers weren't very gentlemanly toward Torri Higginson (the best team leader on the show, in my opinion). The high turnover of characters on the show would seem to indicate that there was some kind of animosity backstage.
First of all, I'm glad you decided to write this article and give us a chance to respond. I first wanted to mention that one of the reasons why I (as a fan predominantly of SGA, but also quite taken by the original movie ... oh, hai, James Spader, as well as the early years of SG-1 with the original team) feel betrayed that I was lied to. After the cancellation of SGA (which supposedly had "nothing" to do with the greenlighting of SGU), TPTB finally admitted that they'd been offered a guaranteed choice: 1 final season of SGA and 1 season of SGU OR only 2 seasons of SGU). Well, we know what they chose. And, yet, had they run both shows simultaneously, they could have avoided So. Much. Emotion on the part of the fans of SGA while easing into SGU. But they were tired of the old show with OMG characters of heroic proportions (gee, I guess being a hero isn't cool nowadays). So they gave us a show that has no heroes, only unlikeable characters (although I do have a soft spot for Eli) who can not do anything without conflict. Yes, it's quite true that the people who ended up on the Destiny shouldn't have been there; however, it should be remembered that the military and civillians were NOT enemies from warring countries: they were all somehow connected to the Stargate program and, instead of having the emotional maturity to recognize that they had to work together From. The. Very. Beginning, there was chaos and bitterness. Also, the lack of discipline among the military has resulted in some unsavoury liaisons and I'm wondering how many other pregnancies would there be on that ship if they hadn't stopped with only TJ's. In fact, if I can be crude, I'm wondering about people who use the stones to have sex with their het partners while in the bodies of strangers, if the birth control fails, then the result would be a baby with only half the desired genetic material. I find the whole idea of having sex through a stand-in to be repugnant. Oh, yeah, bold and risk-taking??? Nah, just stupid.
ReplyDeleteIt appears to me that they went from actions not resulting in major consequences (in SGA) to the other extreme where ALL actions are guaranteed to create as much conflict as possible. I'm sorry, but this is not believable. I loathe Young's character and, even though Rush is a lying weasel, he still has more integrity (especially considering this week's epi conclusion).
So, you may wonder - if I dislike this show so much - then WHY am I still watching it? Because I miss the good feelings of SG-1 and especially SGA and hope that something good will happen ... soon. Because there's very little other SF stuff to watch (to the extent that I'm now watching three mundane shows). But I'm watching reluctantly. Gone is the magic excitement of a Friday evening, knowing that millions would be watching and then sharing their comments. Community of that kind is euphoric and spirited dialogue uplifting. But, sadly, in this case, it's just another show that I won't miss at all if it's cancelled. I certainly won't buy the DVDs as just one watching of an epi is enough.
Even though it's sad, I agree with a commenter above that it may be time for the Stargate franchise to go fallow until brighter, more imaginative, definitely more mature minds breathe some new life into it (and focus less on young women with long hair IN. SPACE).
You are welcome to your opinion. But what you wrote above is pretty much what Wright is talking about. When there are hundreds of ppl complaining about the obvious, SG: Universe will suffer. Believe it or not but much of the hate you spew above should be more directed at the excutives or BOSSES of 'Wright and comany'... many, many 'business decisions' go on behind the scenes. Has 'Wright and company' made mistakes? ...sure but seemingly no more than any other creative leader.
ReplyDeleteWell said! I agree with this article wholeheartedly and about time too!
ReplyDeleteI was heartbroken by the early cancellation of SGA, even though the Season 5 writing wasn't great. There was so much potential with that show. Still, I gave SGU a chance. I set my DVR and I crossed my fingers and hoped that it would be an acceptable replacement for my favorite show. What I got instead was a lot of people arguing and sabotaging each other on a ship with occasional visits from annoying earth-bound characters. There was none of that fun exploring spirit or team/family dynamic that I had come to expect from the franchise. I gave it a chance. But the moment Colonel What's-his-face purposefully stranded Dr. Rush on that planet, I knew SGU was absolutely not a show that I could continue to watch. I found the selfish actions of those characters too disgusting to watch and there wasn't a single character that I actually liked.
ReplyDeleteIf Wright wants loyalty from the franchise fans, he has to return that loyalty and give us what we want and expect or surprise us with something better. If he wants to create an entirely different type of show, then he's going to have to look for entirely new types of fans.
Bravo I can't tell better and you're totally right.
ReplyDeleteLike you, I watched a couple of episodes of SG-1 but didn't really sign on for the whole thing. I really like SGA a lot (it's definitely one of my favorite shows ever) but I never expected to like it. I actually DO like darker story lines (I love Greek tragedies and existentialist literature is almost the only thing I read) and I hadn't thought sci-fi was character-driven or character-based. The whole reason I watch things is because the characters are, in some way, compelling. I like 03 Battlestar Galactica and the plot line of SGU sounded appealing and interesting to me. I gave it a shot but I didn't find the characters interesting. I've thought before about watching it again (I've heard that the second season was better) and tuned in during one of the latest episodes but I wasn't really interested.
ReplyDeleteThe really dumb thing is that the thing that really turns me OFF of SGU more than the fact that I didn't connect with the characters, is actually the virulent rants of SGU fans (like the person down the page) and J. Malozzi who complain that SGA sucked and SGA fans just can't get the "complexity" of SGU. I mean, come on...SGU's writing is heavy-handed and melodramatic.
The reason I don't go for SGU is because it IS cheesy -- it's like a soap opera or something. I can go for a level of cheesiness when I like or empathize with the characters but the characters on SGU seem to go two ways: over-the-top and cartoonish or dull and undefined. Actually, I like dark sci fi and I like challenging themes. But, honestly, as good as BSG was, it was flawed in that it was so melodramatic and SGU doesn't show a fraction of the restraint expressed by the writers of BSG.
ReplyDeleteNot everyone strands a guy on a desert planet or frames someone for murder. That crap doesn't make someone "multidimensional" or "complex" - it makes them a jerk. As far as watching shows with jerks in them...I like Gaius Baltar and Starbuck on BSG because they're interesting and complex. The characters on SGU aren't. Sorry.
After Mallozzi rudely lashing at fans on his blog, repeatedly saying that they have no intention of changing the show so to make fans happy and that 'if you don't like it, just don't watch it', how come he pleads for the fans' mercy all of a sudden?
ReplyDeleteWe just do what Mallozzi told us to do.
We don't like it, so we don't watch it.
All we do is listen to his own advice.
As for Brad Wright, it's simply incredible that the chief producer refuses to consider the quality of his show as a factor for how many people watch it.
This mindset is simply alarming. The words vanity and arrogance do cross one's mind when he reads something like this.
I'm so glad you specifically stated (alluded in my post) the scene where Colonel What's-his-face (ha, apt description) left Rush on the planet to - let's not kid ourselves - DIE. It's one thing for Rush to lie and obfuscate, it's quite another to maroon someone on an alien planet with the knowledge that death is the only possible outcome. And this is the military leader?!?!?
ReplyDeleteI also find it odd that TPTB claim to be following their darker, edgier vision of this show, abandoning the quick-and-easy fixes of the previous incarnations. If that were the case, then wasn't it awfully convenient for Rush to be found so soon.
I also wanted to mention that, if TPTB wanted to have more creative casting diversity, then imagine if Greer's and Scott's racial identities had been swapped. Because the whole "angry young black man" type has been done to death.
As for Wright's expectations of entirely new types of fans, that is exactly what he was determined he'd be successful in achieving: you know, the 18-35 year old jock who lives next door who DOESN'T watch SF but will inexplicably watch SGU.
.
Hey Peteris, check out this link: http://chrisabraham.com/2009/04/13/overcoming-bad-online-influencers-for-battlestar/
ReplyDeleteAre you one of these shills? They used the same tactics in trying to scare up the fans of the Battlestar Franchise. Brad and Company does not OWN Stargate, MGM Did, Now Spyglass does. They decide where and when another reboot happens, Not Mallozzi, not Wright, and definitely not Cooper. They can and probably will be canned in a flash to bring new life to this ailing franchise. Although people at SGUSUCKS.COM would probably be happy that you think they are responsible for getting this show canned, the reality is, they don't speak for the millions of fans, and the 100's of thousands (Just like Rush's idiotic calculation) of Nielsen Families who refuses to watch this garbage.
Interesting SciFi? are you kidding? Here are some of the comments from SGU Showrunners, cast and crew:
ReplyDelete"When my wife watches the show with me, she sees it as a drama now, not a science fiction show." - Brad Wright
"... I don't want to say alien. I don't want to say the word alien. It just doesn't feel like our show. Why can't I say 'those things' or 'that creature' or whatever? We start saying the word alien and it just takes the show into a weird sci-fi thing that it hasn't been so far." - Brian J. Smith
"I think the hard-core fans feel the same way that people felt about Star Trek. 'How dare you you commercialize what is so special to me! How dare you try and take something that I've supported and watched and bought the DVDs and gone to conventions and try and make it something that my next-door neighbor, who's a jock and who I can't stand, can get into as well!'" - Brian J. Smith
So when these people had decided that it is not SciFi but really SoapFy, what makes you think this is top notch Scifi? Perhaps it's the magic Communication stones? Or perhaps the Human Resouces Clerk trting to wrestle power away from the Military contingent. No? Maybe the SciFi was in the way Scott was boinking James in the Broom Closet, Or lovely romantic Scenes from Scott and Chloe's bedroom? This is not Stargate but Melrose Space (or Battlegate Voyager 90210)
"I don't want to say 'alien'"... That is so stupid. What do you want to say, then? Make up your minds, people - is this a sci-fi show or isn't it? If it's not, then don't bother putting in a millennia-old spaceship, stargates, and body-switching stones. Stop straddling the fence and go write for One Tree Hill. Then you can have all the bedroom scenes, character angst, and moody montages set to brain-numbing indie ballads you want.
ReplyDeleteAh, space soap opera. Well, that's definitely a whole new direction for Stargate I guess.
ReplyDeleteDavid Hewlett famously called SGU "Stargate 90210". I'm not going to use that reference, but it does seem something that's not within the same franchise formula as the previous shows.
ReplyDelete"Stop straddling the fence and go write for One Tree Hill."
ReplyDeleteIf they promise to bring Chad Michael Murray back, I might go for that. Wait, let me think...no, never mind.
"Gone is the magic excitement of a Friday evening, knowing that millions would be watching and then sharing their comments."
ReplyDeleteI have Supernatural for that :D Plus, Sanctuary is a nice Friday evening event.
Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThe characters have to pull me in. If they're not interesting, then I'm not likely to continue watching.
ReplyDeleteI do wish some acknowledgement would be made by the producers that a larger part of the problem is indeed internal.
ReplyDeleteOh, please! The fans who expressed any negative feelings or thoughts were dismissed as a very small minority, of the wrong demographics, that would mean little or nothing to the ratings and viability of U. Repeatedly. By anyone associated with the show who spoke with any and every reporter and fan.
ReplyDeleteI tried watching U. I was hoping that if the new show did well we might get an SGA movie. (Yes, I know, I totally fell for that one!) I watched 5 episodes before throwing in the towel. I have been watching TV and film for a long time, too long to waste time on bad product.
U is Days of Our Lives set on a dirty old spaceship. Nothing more. And that is insulting DoOL! Given the lead-up time TPTB had for getting U up and running, it looked and felt like it was written during a drunken binge by a bunch of teenage boys realizing they could bang the hot chick whenever they wanted to. Why the heck would I want to spend more than the utterly wasted hours that I wish I could get back for that kind of dreck?
::pouts in envy::
ReplyDeleteBut Sanctuary (despite its inventiveness) never grabbed me and ::reveals big secret:: I've never watched Supernatural (and the odd story lines I hear going around in its fandom are doing nothing to persuade me). It's no wonder that, if I want to have the level of excitement around Stargate continuing, I either have to read it or ... write it myself!
I always have said, if I find a show intriguing I'll watch, but if it doesn't hold my interest then I don't watch. That is the case here.
ReplyDeleteEXACTLY, my friend. Im really getting tired of hearing other uninformed fans whining about the end of Stargate Universe being the "end of the franchise". YES, Its the end of THIS franchise which uses the current writers like Brad Wright, Joseph Mallozzi, Carl Binder, Robert Cooper, et al. The reality is that not a single one of them is responsible for the creation of Stargate, and NONE of them own the rights to Stargate, and therefore cannot say what gets made next for Stargate, or when, or if or if not. ITS NOT THEIR CALL. All that has to happen is for SGU to fail, the current writers get fired along with selling off the sets...a complete purge. And the rights to Stargate will still belong to MGM/Spyglass and can either be re-used, or sold to another studio. Star Trek lives on even though Gene Roddenberry passed away. Like Trek, the idea of Stargate is evergreen and does not need these writers or anyone currently associated with this franchise. They would do well to let them all go and put the stargate on ice for a few years. Then reboot with DIFFERENT writers.
ReplyDelete::waves hi::
ReplyDeleteI'm baaaaaaaack. And have a comment from a different angle. So, TPTB overtly say the old SG-1/SGA fans are to blame for the falling viewership for SGU. But that doesn't make any sense. Because we're still supporting the old shows financially (SGA in particular) despite the fact that we've been shot down, derided and ignored. How can our admiration and respect for OUR show be so much stronger (even against blatant "official" opposition) than the lacklustre support from SGU's viewers. And our support still continues two years after cancellation. I believe that sales of SGA DVDs are still on the charts whereas SGU's sales are less-than-expected. Of course, the grab-for-greed by splitting the season into 2 didn't help either.
TPTB told us they wanted viewers but not fans ... and they definitely got what they wanted. Fans buy DVDs, bid on cast-off props and costumes, attend cons and show their loyalty - if not to the show that's no longer there - then to the actors.
from January 2009, in Joe Mallozzi's blog:
ReplyDeleteCazzBlade wrote: “When discussing the cancellation of Atlantis was it ever considered that the fans would not react well to it or to SGU as a consequence?”
Brad Wright replied: "If we make a good show, you will watch it. If we don’t, you won’t."
---
Frankly, I don't see how anyone can claim some negative words from a small group of SGA fans has had any impact. I'd sure need proof. If SGU is tanking in the ratings, at least according to BW, it's probably because the show doesn't appeal to enough people as is. I gave it a shot when it first came out, but I like stuff that is character driven, and I wasn't attracted to the characters as they were written. BSG had a real advantage in that I adored the show growing up and I was fascinated by how they were individually re-imaged in the newer, grittier incarnation from the get-go. There was a framework there to work with. Not so with SGU, and frankly, what BW and crew came up with in the pilot (weepy, wimpy princess; selfish, nefarious doctor-guy and the usual geek-who-knows-everything) wasn't imaginative enough for me.
When it was mentioned that most of the Stargate fans were not the key demographic for SGU (aka we're too old), I often wondered if anyone involved considered that fact that we (the too old market) are the one who financially support the franchise.
ReplyDeleteEvidently not. Besides you're using reasoning with probable statistical proof to support your argument. Huh - must be one of those old-lady-type behaviours. So not the cool thing for them.
ReplyDeleteHowever, what brothers and troubles me is negativity I hear from them every day.
ReplyDeleteSo people are allowed to express opinions only when they're positive? It won't wash; negativity doesn't change the minds of people who really like a show. As another example, my friends-list is full of people who express dripping scorn for "The Vampire Diaries". That makes no difference; TVD is still hugely popular because it gives some significant part of the viewing audience exactly what they want. I DVR it for my BFF, who is a strong fan; my dislike of the characters and storyline does not affect her liking of the series.
it is not the first franchise whose fans gets into overprotective mode and destroy it in the end
I've been aware of fandom for about 15 years, now. (Yeah, late-comer.) I have seen -- and heard of -- dedicated fan-movements to save a show on the brink, or to bring one back after cancellation, starting with the original Star Trek. I have never heard of fans banding together with advertisements, mailings, and other efforts to get a show canceled. We don't care enough. But our sitting in a corner, grumbling to similar-minded fans, doesn't affect the outcome. If a show makes the grade and attracts a fervent fan-base, more power to it. But it stands -- or fails -- on its merits of characterization and storytelling.
There have always been people who didn't like 'x' show. I remember considerable grumbling about the direction SciFi was taking the original SG-1, from about year 5 forward, but it was strong enough with other fans that it continued through Season 10. Stark Trek stayed alive through TNG and DS9 because fans who didn't like the new shows (and, even with no internet, I heard the complaints) were far fewer than fans who embraced the new formats and stories. "Overprotective fans who destroy a franchise" is a straw-man argument.
He did? I didn't know that. That's funny.
ReplyDeleteI love Sanctuary. And not just because it has Amanda Tapping. It's going to be considered a classic someday.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I stopped watching Stargate: Universe is that the people on it are not very likable. The characters do not seem to enjoy each others company very much and are constantly cheating on each other and stabbing each other in the back. I'm a science fiction fan, not a soap opera fan. The other Stargate shows had tightly knit casts of characters who loved and respected each other. I really miss that.
ReplyDeleteCharacters are a main drive when I select what shows to watch.
ReplyDeleteStar Trek Enterprise "failed" according to some of the people, and the show was ultimately cancelled during it's 4th Season. 4 years later, a brand new Star Trek movie was released which according to many, have rejuvenated the franchise. Theres been talks about a new television series, as well as atleast 1 sequel planned to the 2009 movie.
ReplyDeleteThe Star Trek franchise was considered "Done" after the poor results of Star Trek Nemesis (10th movie), and the cancellation of Enterprise. And yet, here we are 5.5 years after Enterprise got cancelled, and the Star Trek franchise is still as strong as ever. Just because there isnt any active television series on the air, doesn't make the franchise "dead". Trek went 18 years between the Original Series, and the Next Generation.
Ultimately, regardless of what happens to SGU, if there is enough interest in the Stargate Franchise, sooner or later, someone will develop a new series within the franchise. Maybe in a year from now, or maybe even 10 years. You can't really predict the future.
"BW: No. You guys are actually pretty predictable (take no offense, most fan groups are). Unfortunately, you represent a very small portion of the actual viewing audience we need for financial success."
ReplyDeleteWait... aren't the "fans" also in large part the same as the "viewers" ? Without the fans, you have no viewers. One doesn't tune in to watch the same show week after week unless you are atleast somewhat of a fan of the show/franchise.
They replaced Dr Weir (Tori Higginson), with a facsimile in the form of a Replicator (different actress). As leader of the expedition, they brought in Colonel Carter from SG-1 (who is mainly a field officer, or researcher). When Amanda Tapping decided to focus more on her career with newly started Sanctuary (wise decision btw), the writers replaced her character with... Richard Woolsey. A character whose main appearance in SG1, started with him trying to shut the program down and replace all the key personell (at the height of the whole Anubis threat).
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I think Bob Picardo is a great actor. But his character was soooo not right for the new leader of Atlantis. No leadership skills whatsoever, very little ACTUAL knowledge of how things work in regards to all things Ancient/Stargate, and very little trust from the personnel under his newfound command. Hell, even the city itself didn't like Woolsey being put in command. Malfunctioning transporter sends him to the other side of the city, locking him into a briefing room etc.
Why can't they just admit they made a bad show? It can be said with more words but tha's the bottom line. It is dull and slow and nobody likes it much.
ReplyDeleteYes, that would be correct. I find that Mr. Wright does not quite understand that fact, though.
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly I like Woolsey as the commander :) Carter, while I love her, had her authority pretty much taken away when she came to Atlantis because they didn't want it to seem that there was an iron hold of military command over Sheppard and the rest of the crew. Woolsey was what they needed at the time because he WAS the one everyone hated initially, since he was bureaucratic, but then he began to realize that the rules of Earth were not the rules of Atlantis.
ReplyDeleteI don't think any creator wants to admit that their work is not good. Unfortunately, the creators of SGU have taken that to extremes and started blaming others for their work not being accepted.
ReplyDeleteI think it's hard to compare ST to SG... ST had 5 distinct casts over decades, 3 successful network shows and ten theater release movies (the majority being classics), a Las Vegas attration for 10 years... SG had one solid cult movie, 2 thematically inseparable shows, SGU and 2 great DVD movies.
ReplyDeleteThat's not even factoring the difference in situations comparing MGM (now Spyglass) and Paramount.
I love Stargate, loved the movie, loved SG-1, SGA, and even SGU... but I'm also giving the odds to the franchise dieing with SGU... or at least whats left of the fan base wishing it had... plus what do you do with it? ST had a massive universe to play in, SG just doesn't.
Totally agreed... they should have spaced out the supply shortage issues and done a lot more with the gate. Rearrange the first 10 episodes and starts to look more like a Atlantis and a lot less like Lost.
ReplyDeleteStart our with Water, Aliens attack, Air, Rush getting abandoned, Food, Energy, Alien Attack, Rush comes back... now you've got a BSG style show with BSG style pacing instead of Lost.
SGU , will miss it but thanks to J.J. Abrams for Fringe. Which will be my Fav.
ReplyDeleteIt is important that the factors systematized in the franchisers functions guide be honored as a recalcitrant franchisee does not only harm his own company but has the prospective of harmful the product and therefore all franchisees.
ReplyDeleteFranchisees rely on the franchisees to use the factors predicted of every franchisee in the program and thus franchisees that vary from these must be reinforced to conform as needed or be ended.
ReplyDelete