Supernatural Episode with a production number of 9.02 will be called "I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here"
We suspect that as they are filming out of order that this will actually be Episode 9.01.
This episode will feature.
Ezekiel - A man possessed by the spirit of a fallen angel. This is a possibly recurring role.
Hael - Female Teenager, she is a fallen angel who has landed on earth in a human body.
Shoot Dates: July 23 - August 2
Writer: Jeremy Carver
Director: John Showalter
Source: SpoilerTV
We suspect that as they are filming out of order that this will actually be Episode 9.01.
This episode will feature.
Ezekiel - A man possessed by the spirit of a fallen angel. This is a possibly recurring role.
Hael - Female Teenager, she is a fallen angel who has landed on earth in a human body.
Shoot Dates: July 23 - August 2
Writer: Jeremy Carver
Director: John Showalter
Source: SpoilerTV
Misha must be directing the first episode then if they're directing out of order. I hope Jensen gets to direct again soon, too, though.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait for this!
Didn't Misha say in one of the conventions that he would direct episode 17? His situation is different than Jensen's because he isn't one of the leads, so he has the time to prepare unlike Jensen.
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like season premiere to me.
@klutzy_girl @Miss Supernatural I've updated the post with the Writer and Director details
ReplyDeleteThank you. :)
ReplyDeleteThis is pathetic.
ReplyDeleteA teen angel was all that was missing from Carver's little 're-boot.'
Teen angel-check
Teen hunter-check
Teen prophet-check
Teen were-wolf-check
All we need now is teen demon and teen vampire to complete the desolating pcture.
X
Then what is the 'spirit' of an angel?
Aren't angels supposed to get permission before 'possesing' human vessels? !
X
Poor Supernatural! What a terrible way to end this wonderful show, taking it from the unique journey of two special brothers to the mess Carver is making of it.
I'm looking suspiciously at the title, if this is something Cas says when he moves into the bunker, then consider me a crying ball of feels :') Cas, Kevin, Dean and Sam would be a perfecty company to live there, I think :D
ReplyDeleteMust be the first as it involves the angels and is written by Jeremy Carver.
ReplyDeleteremember the bridge season 8 episode 12 as time goes by
ReplyDeleteawesome
ReplyDeleteThey're shooting out of order to accomodate actor availability. Misha said he's directing episode 17.
ReplyDeleteI love anything to do with the angels, so this sounds promising! I'm looking forward to it!
ReplyDeleteI agree. They are so handsome ans sweet. Best brothers ever. .)
ReplyDeleteDude, maybe you should WAIT until the episode comes out BEFORE criticizing it? Just a little suggestion...
ReplyDeleteEpisode hasn't aired yet - check.
ReplyDeleteNo plot synopsis. - check
No trailer. - check
No promotional photos. -check
Pretty much no information about the episode at all except for the title and a casting snippet- check.
Ok, let's complain about this episode.
Another annoying teenage girl - another sassy Krissy? Can't they come up with something new and different?
ReplyDeleteUgh . . . this doesn't sound the least bit interesting. Hopefully, my impression is completely wrong.
ReplyDeleteI'm critiizing what's written in black and white.
ReplyDeleteTeen angel is mentioned.
We do have a teen hunter, teen prophet and teen were-wolf.
They may or may be used together, but there's nothing wrong with showing displeasure at more teens in what is essentially a road-trip adult brother show.
Carver has ruined the show IMO, you are naturally free to see it differently and praise everything.
No problem.
maybe carver is going to actually make the angels more like demons?? or treat the fallen like spirits. or reveal that asking for permission had more to do with angelic code than permission being actually required. or the person in question had already been possessed by said angel.
ReplyDeletebecause they may just be using them because they are going to touch on vessel issues and what it means for formerly possessed vessels. do they have to ask for permission if they got a yes even once? if so that is a direct connection to sam as if lucifer ever breaks free then he doesn't even have to ask sam again to possess him again.
if they are going to go the whole "possessed by a fallen angel" route then i personally want a final answer on the status of jimmy novak in canon. personally i think he's gone and castiel functions in his remade by god (?) body much like anna did after her return when she called in "favors".
ReplyDeletebut that is my theory and not canon fact so i'd like for them to address the issues of vessels if they are going to be using the angels and treating them as "human" now that they've fallen.
Only one them is even a supporting character, you realize. And they actually don't have a choice about it. It's a show on the CW with two post 30 year old men. You're lucky they didn't pull a Buffy and add a teen sister.
ReplyDeleteYou'd make a terrible juror.
ReplyDeleteBut if they just possess people without permission, they are even worse than demons because the angels still consider themselves good and righteous.
ReplyDeleteIf that happens they go from ambiguous to truly evil.
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As for Lucifer, I would think he would have to ask for permission again. I can't see him just slipping into Sam without permission. Sam would fight against it.
There have been certain rules built into the SPN world. They can't just be ignored and broken because they don't suit Carver. That just cheapens everything!
Ooh, I hadn't heard that. Interesting! Thanks.
ReplyDeleteWonder why they're shooting out of order then.
Ah, interesting. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteWhere does it say that they possess someone without their permission???? I don't see any of that.
ReplyDeleteI love post 30 year old men and I can't stand know it all little teens!
ReplyDeleteI believe the show as it was; remained one of the best rated CW shows, so the 'two old hunters Sam and Dean' must have been doing something right!
All it says is "a man possessed by the spirit of a fallen angel". It doesn't say whether he gave his permission or not.
ReplyDeleteYou're missing my point. The show has a demographic to appeal to. Whether or not you, individually, or ever I, also individually, prefer older characters doesn't matter to either Carver or the CW. But yes, the show does have high ratings, which is precisely why they don't have to worry about adding a regular teen role. However, why not let random of the week be someone closer to the target audience's age? It doesn't actually matter, and teens have stories worth telling as well.
ReplyDelete(And if you're really going to criticize showrunners, point a finger at Gamble whose tenure was the one that brought Krissy into things, brought Kevin into things, and actually did have a prominent teen with Ben. For the record.)
eh, i don't mind if they go from ambiguous to truly evil. since the only thing that seemed to have been holding a lot of them back from acting worse than demons was angelic code and fear of their father. overall the story has painted most all angels to be worse, if not more so, than demons. to the point that when "nice" angels appear most are shocked
ReplyDeletebut as for repossession they never really said if they needed permission every time. the story always framed permission as a one time deal or as the "big yes". they never show re-vesseling so we don't know if raphael had to ask his vessel for permission again or not.
the situation with claire and jimmy novak is sort of muddled in my memory, and i don't have time right now for a scene rewatch, but tho castiel possessed claire it was never stated that he did so because he couldn't return to jimmy as far as i can remember.
and they implied in 6.03 that castiel had spent a large portion of time in his true form so would that mean that, if jimmy was still alive, he had to ask for permission before he came to the brothers in the motel? idk, they really need to address this if they are going to have a bunch of fallen angels running around in vessels and not (re)born as babies.
I love Supernatural's angels, so I'm really intrigued about these new angel characters, and I'm very excited to see what the angels will be doing after their exile from heaven. It would be nice if Castiel expresses the sentiment in the title although I'm thinking it would be too early for him to have such a positive sentiment about his newfound humanity. Most likely the sentiment will come from one of the newly earthbound angels instead, perhaps and angel who hasn't ever visited Earth until Metatron cast them all out? I do hope we get the answer about Jimmy Novak. I find it hard to believe Jimmy's soul is still inside Castiel after all his deaths and resurrections and Metatron made it clear when he removed Castiel's grace that Castiel has a human soul of his own now, so Jimmy being there wouldn't make any sense to me, but it'd be nice to get confirmation for sure.
ReplyDeleteShe did bring in Ben but he had a sense in the story she was telling and once his arc was done, he was gone along with his mother.
ReplyDeleteKrissy was probably a one-off thing for Sera. She maybe never intended to bring her back, but we'll never know.
Yes, she did introduce Kevin, but at least she used him sensibly, making him translate the tablet quickly not dragging it out for a whole season as Carver has done.Then we'll never know what her ideas for him would have been either.
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As for the target audience, I know nothing about the ins and outs of ratings or demographics etc. though I suspect most of those who watch SPN are out of their teens, which as you say probably means nothing.
I'm not much of a fan of watching a lot of teens either, but this seems like a bit of an overreaction. The teen angel won't be acting like a teenager, she'll be acting like an ancient angel.
ReplyDeleteThe werewolves were only on for one episode, and SPN has always had guests that range from babies to old men on the show. We had a teen witch in season 4 and I'm pretty certain some of the guest vamps we've seen in previous seasons have been teens. Eve was in the body of a teen as well
Krissy, the teen hunter was annoying, I'll give you that. But hopefully she won't return. The only one here who is recurring and who is truly a teen human is Kevin, and he hasn't been annoying so far.
My guess it will be Metatron, or possibly someone on the demon side depending on what the fallout on the demon side is.
ReplyDeleteI'm so stoked for the great spoilers we're getting about Cas for this season, really excited to see how he handles humanity, and hoping he'll be fully integrated into TFW where he belongs. Also hoping very much to hear something concrete re Dean and his storyline.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty happy with what the show has given us wrt Jimmy having gone to heaven (The Rapture) and I think the fact Cas was reported as "brain dead" when he showed up again after Point of No Return suggests Jimmy isn't there. That said, the show does have a habit of retconning! :-D
ReplyDeleteI agree that Krissy was probably intended as a one-off character. Her reappearance n seaon 8, however, was actually due to some fans requesting her return. You can even see a twitter exchange with Adam Glass about it if you go back enough in his profile.
ReplyDeleteOsric has said that Kevin was initially intended solely for a three-episode arc, so I'm thinking we saw the full extent of Gamble's plans for him already: Introduce young prophet, use him for solving plot things, discard.
Carver was smart to continue to utilize him this year. Yes, the pacing with the tablet may have been uneven in places, but he and the rest of the writing staff managed to expand Kevin beyond the cardboard cutout stereotype he was in S7, while making the most of this particular addition to the mythology of the series. And fandom has taken quite well to both the character and the actor, further cementing his continued role in the series. You may not care for him personally, but there's no doubt that keeping Kevin around was 100% a good decision from both a business and storytelling standpoint.
The "teen were-wolf" you mentioned above was actually a college student, so not a teenager at all, and it's highly possible we'll never see her again, given that most of the fandom didn't care for that episode much.
As for Hael, who knows what plans they have for her. She could be another one-off person. She could be recurring. She could be a good guy, a bad guy, or some shade of grey. And, no matter what the initial intent of the writers, fan reception will likely play a role in whether we see more or less of her in the long run, as it did with all of the above characters.
You are attacking Carver for two characters he didn't create. Gamble left Carver with having to either kill Kevin off or use him as he was part of the Season 7 cliffhanger.
ReplyDeleteAnd while Kevin was a teen when he was introduced to the series but as of right now in this point in the series he is an adult.
Chrissy has been in 2 episodes, you act like she is some 9 episodes a season recurring character or something. Also i'm pretty sure they left it as she wasn't a hunter anymore or at least not until she was 18.
Teen Werewolf? Are you talking about the one they decided not to track down last season?
The fact that she was in college defeats the whole "teenage" thing. She may well have been 18 or 19 I don't even know if the ever revealed that info. But i'd wager the writers had her in her 20's. Anyways at 18 your an adult she wasn't a teenager in the sense you mean it.
If you are gonna lump her as teenage werewolf, then the original Meg was teenage demon as she was also a college student.
Besides she was a one off monster of the week type character that will not be back unless they decide to kill her off or something.
But if the teenage thing effects you this much you should really rethink some things.
Actually, The Rapture indicated the opposite, since he was *going* to go to Heaven before he begged Cas to take him back. Then, Cas told him "you won't die or age. If this last year was painful for you, picture a hundred, a thousand just like it." So, at that point in time, Jimmy was still obviously en la casa. But I agree that Two Minutes to Midnight suggests he must've moved on at some point....possibly after Cas's own death.
ReplyDeleteWhile the "brain dead" thing does seem to point towards Jimmy being gone, we're told in "My Bloody Valentine" that the reason Cas was trying to eat everything in that episode was because Famine was affecting Jimmy and his love for red meat. So that seems to point towards Jimmy still being in there. And since that happened before the "brain dead" line, but nothing happens to Cas in between those two episodes that would logically make Jimmy leave his body, the doctors probably thought he was brain dead because Cas was in control of his body, and was therefore suppressing Jimmy's brain activity while he was unconscious.
ReplyDeleteOf course Jimmy could have been separated from his body when God put Cas back together in the Season 5 finale, but we've received no evidence to indicate one way or the other whether Jimmy is still in there unless you want to count the fact that "My Bloody Valentine" suggests that Jimmy was still in there at a point after Cas was put back together in the beginning of Season 5.
i think the "without their permission" part refers to my comment that carver could possibly use fallen angels like demons in the show in regards to possession. meaning they do so without the vessels consent and can also possess empty/dead vessels like ruby (again no consent).
ReplyDeletei was just playing around with the idea of what exactly is a fallen angel and how far does consent reach when it comes to angelic vessels.
we know it's about bloodlines and angels having their "true" vessels like in the case of jimmy novak and brothers. but there are also the tangential vessels in the bloodline that are doable like claire and adam. but there are also good enough vessels like nick who didn't seem to be the correct bloodline to hold lucifer but worked in a pinch just because he was willing.
there's a song from the musical "Annie" with the same title. i am going to go ahead and start crying now.
ReplyDelete"And since that happened before the "brain dead" line, but nothing happens to Cas in between those two episodes that would logically make Jimmy leave his body, the doctors probably thought he was brain dead because Cas was in control of his body, and was therefore suppressing Jimmy's brain activity while he was unconscious."
ReplyDeletei think this is a very good point. but i can't remember if castiel blew himself to bits with that sigil on his chest thing or if he just was banished.
because if the sigil works to banish the angel+vessel when written on a surface what does it do when carved into the vessel it's self? if castiel was banished from jimmy's vessel while the vessel was thrown elsewhere (as seems to be the case since in s7 it was implied cas was blown to perth) then would jimmy have had a chance to survive having a comet explode from him like that?
bodies can function and live without souls as s6 made canon. so if jimmy was pronounced brain dead then it could imply that all of jimmy is gone and the jimmy meat suit is completely empty. or was remade empty in jimmy novak's image a la anna so that he didn't have to get a new vessel like raphael did when balthazar destroyed it.
maybe, idk... that's why i want them to actually address the vessels and what it means.
I do think that TECHNICALLY only the Archangels had true vessels. I think Cas had like one line saying that this was why Michael, and Lucifer had to have Sam and Dean as vessels, but other angels seemed to have more flexibility. I could be wrong, but I think it was a blink and you miss it kind of line. Angels do need someone who can become a vessel, but we have never been given the ins and outs of what makes a proper vessel. Jimmy/Claire and John/Dean and Sam seem to indicate a genetic aspect, but it has never been stated.
ReplyDeleteMy impression with the Claire/Jimmy situation was that Jimmy was resolute that he would NOT give consent to Cas a second time and he only did so to save Claire from remaining Cas's vessel. I did get the impression that if a vessel was abandoned they can refuse consent to being a vessel again. We know nothing of Gabriel's vessel. Raphael left his vessel brain damaged and drooling, so he was unable to revoke consent. I think consent is a one time deal, but if the angel left then the vessel could refuse it readmittance.
ReplyDeleteI highly doubt it was just angel code of honor. A little thing like that would not have prevented either Zach or Michael from using Dean as a vessel if that were the case.
ReplyDeletemmm, maybe. but the way i remember it wasn't so much that true meant anything outside of sam and dean for lucifer and michael respectively, due to apocalypse reasons. sort of like they were the one true vessels because of the purpose they were molded to serve. so while michael could posses john due to bloodlines, dean was his one true vessel. that their particular bloodline and history is what singled them out not so much that the archangels in general had specific vessels.
ReplyDeletebut outside of that i got the impression that any angel can possess any human capable of being a vessel but depending on how powerful the angel was will depend on if they can contain them without burning through them. so a possible lower level angel like samandiriel could posses alfie without many problems but if he had possessed his "true" vessel he would be able to function at max capacity without burning through the vessel. and that once they gained access to their "true" vessel they wouldn't usually leave it until they either died or were finished using it.
so lucifer could still tear stuff up while envesseled in nick but it was burning through him and required for him to drink demon blood just to maintain the meat suit.
ugh, this is why they need to address this
i think tho that while prior to entering the warehouse jimmy was not open to being a vessel again, but at the point of castiel possessing claire i don't think jimmy would've said no to being able to save both claire and amelia via letting himself be a vessel again.
ReplyDeleteand if raphael left his vessel, no matter the physical reasons why, he would in theory still need consent to repossess him. raphael is an angel, he doesn't need to communicate as humans do so the vessel not being able to respond vocally or being brain damaged is not an obstacle. because raphael doesn't need consent to heal him/speak to him on another wavelength, he just needs consent to possess him. his vessel wasn't dead/brain dead so the soul was still there. meaning raphael could, in theory, ask the soul within the injured vessel for consent again. much like we saw castiel "speaking" to jimmy.
consent given once isn't consent given in infinity, unless the show is saying that saying yes once is the same as giving your body away forever. thus the "one big yes" theory.
you made some great points tho so i'm going to have to rewatch some eps with them in mind.
''and praise everything''
ReplyDeleteLet's put words in Calvin's mouth aren't we? The *only* thing Calvin told you is that we have nothing on this episode, that's it, that's all.
There was a teen girl possessed by a demon in Season 5 (Swap meat), it must be Carver's fault. There was teenagers killed in S6 with the dragon, Carver's fault again? Unless you only want to mention teen whod did more than 1 episode....which doesn't seem the case cause you're talking about the teen werewolf that we'll probably never see again.
Kevin isn't a teen anymore and a character who sure grew up a lot mentally, the way he '''faced off'' Crowley while not giving a s..... in the Great Escapist was more badass and couragous than a LOT of adults characters we saw face to demon. They could easily cast an adult actress in her 20s to play the angel role who will act like an angel and not like a teen anyway.
i didn't mean angelic code like code of honor but angelic codes of "conduct". sort of like zachariah wouldn't use dean because he was pro apocalypse which made dean off limits. zachariah wanted dean to say yes to michael, he wasn't shown to have any desire to use dean for himself in as a vessel (that sounds weird lol).
ReplyDeletethat the angels we've seen so far only were removed from negative human interaction due fear of their father and repercussions for going against his "will" (like being cast out, sent to bible camp, etc) and their single mindedness and ego surrounding their plans and schemes. most angels seemed to look down on humans so they pay them no mind and they don't see them as worthy of value outside of mandates from an absent father and a meat suit to wear. but you take away the angelic code/god fear and you have nothing stopping them.
but maybe code isn't the right word? rules maybe? idk the right word or phrase for it :(
Wow, the season premiere is angels, angels, angels? And not one mention of Sam and Dean? Yuck. Guess I should find something else to watch and skip this premiere. So sick of the angels. What happened to the little horror show that could?
ReplyDeleteOh my God, Annie references! (In the musical "Annie", Annie sings the song "I think I'm Gonna Like it Here" when she first arrives at Oliver Warbucks' mansion.) Makes me think a certain character will feel this way :D
ReplyDeleteThe "teen prophet" and "teen hunter" both came into the show in season 7 before Carver came back so i don't think you should blame it on him besides Krissy was only in two episodes, it's not really a big deal, the teen were-wolf was only in 1 episode and i don't think she'll be coming back, the show is still about the brothers and their journey, it's not like they're being replaced.
ReplyDeleteThe only information given is the casting information for new characters. Angels or not, there should not be any expectation for information on Dean and Sam from a casting call.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure why this information would mention Sam and Dean? It's about the title, director, writer, and guest cast. There's already some info out about Sam's story.
ReplyDeleteI actually thought Ben's use was worse than most of what they've done with Kevin or Krissy. He kept coming back for Parent Trap style idiocies and then had that mindwipe story that just felt like cheap drama and angst with no real purpose.
ReplyDeleteIs the vessel recurring?, that's hard to think with all the vessels we seen!. Hael sounds very interesting, hopefully these angels are good particularly Hael, she sounds a bit like Anna style dosen't it?. From the title I think one of the angels at least will play a longer role on the show.
ReplyDeleteRemember that they need to say "Yes" because they followed the rules of heaven. And after the 6th, as Balthazar said, no more rules.
ReplyDeleteWell, I think its going to be an amazing season :) very interesting!
ReplyDeleteI'm concerned about canon - I hope they keep the canon truth that angels must have permission from the human to "possess" them. I'll be pissed if they can possess like demons suddenly. I hope they retain an "angelic" attitude - angel dickishness, as opposed to straight up evil demon style. Normally I'd assume this, but after Taxi Driver, I'm worried.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to keep an open mind, but I hope this season won't become a year long "Rapture + Free to be You & Me". Just want something new.
I flashed on Eve immediately when I read "teen girl". Sorry, but after little girl Lilith, who was shockingly evil & perfect, every other attempt to startle us by using the young as evil has failed for me. It's a gimmick now.
ReplyDeleteyou forgot the Teen Vampire
ReplyDeleteIt's just the whole approach to the show that's changed since Carver took over.
ReplyDeleteI just can't forgive him the mess he made of season eight, and yes I know that there are plenty of people that see it differently and have liked what he's done, but for me he has betrayed the spirit of the show, its past canon and the brothers and their bond too.
I will never be good with the whole Sam not looking for Dean thing. That was all his fault. He wrote the episode, so I have no trust that he will write a good one this time either.
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I only watch for Sam and Dean and I have no affection for any of the current secondary characters at all, except for Crowley.
Kevin has run his course too.
What use is he sitting in the bunker still translating? We have had that for the whole of season eight already. The only use I can still see for him is that he teams up with Castiel and both go off angel -hunting with the tablet,
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SPN is becoming more amd more of an ensemble show and when there are too many characters centre stage, eveything becomes confused and less exciting.
Yes there have been teens on the show before but reading 'Teen Angel' makes me think of all those young adult books that deal with that sort of thing and for me it just clashes with the original spirit of SPN
Yes, Michael would just have jumped right in, no questions asked. There obviously was a protocol to it all.
ReplyDeleteYou're correct.
ReplyDeleteI forgot about the teen vamps in Dean's vampire episode. Yeah they were really dumb and pukey. Even Dean thought the they were. :)
Good point. But I took that to mean that there were no more rules amongst the angels with regards to Heaven and the life that they led there.
ReplyDeleteX
Could be that Balthazar intended the rules that included their relations towards humans too.
as far as the canon goes... have they addressed whether those rules apply to fallen angels?
ReplyDeleteYeah, little Lilith was a work of art.
ReplyDeleteThe child actress portrayed her so perfectly.
I agree. It's a gimmick now. Even Kevin.
If we were to have had a prophet, I would rather have had some charismatic old guy with a beard than him.
For me Bobby had more charisma than all the young characters put together, as have all the older actors, from Ellen to Joshua to Alastair to John Winchester himself.
Can't agree.
ReplyDeleteBen was first presented in season three as perhaps being Dean's own son, so there was a reason for him existing. I didn't mind Lisa and Ben but i agree that the mind-wipe was an unfair thing to do as they could still be prey for any monster that wants to get to Dean.
Kevin is actually useless, IMO. He has done nothing for a whole season but sit and translate a tablet on a house-boat, and from latest picture, he is now sitting in the bunker, still translating.
Krissy was annoying, and I'm just not interested in her and her teen team.
Thank you. Neither Michael nor Lucifer seemed to care one jot about whether Dean or Sam wanted to be vessels. They were set on their course and no code of conduct or ethics or anything like that would stop them. If it was anything less than physically impossible for Michael to inhabit Dean's body without his consent, Zachariah would have found a loophole to get it done. He was desperate and we already know he would do anything. That means Michael literally COULD NOT enter Dean without his consent, not that it was against arbitrary customs or some ancient code of honor, especially since we already know the angels have no honor.
ReplyDeleteI think people are reading a lot into the wording in this blurb about possession. These blurbs are often a little inaccurate. I remember them saying Eve was turning the town into demons in season 6, and something last season too - maybe it was Taxi Driver - that the taxi driver was a demon. Which isn't to say they won't violate canon. I just don't take the exact wording in these synopses very seriously.
ReplyDeleteAt last, a female angel with a angel-ish name.
ReplyDeleteOH PLEASE, for me Dawn was the worse thing to happen to Buffy. lol
ReplyDeleteMy problem with the mind wipe..what about the dead body and broken items in the home, what about all the hospital people that treated them, was their mind wiped also? What about the car that is not wrecked? I try not to let that kind of questions ruin an ep, but inquiring minds want to know. lol
ReplyDeleteWe are talking about this like canon would make any difference to Carver, if he wants to do it, then it will be done.
ReplyDeleteI hate to keep beating a dead horse, but I agree with you about Sam and I have not even had the will to watch the season again. There were many eps that I really liked, but the whole not looking just put a black cloud over the whole season for me. But I do LOVE Feral Dean..HOT, HOT. lol and Benny.
ReplyDeleteCas and the Angels are the reason season 4 is my favorite.
ReplyDeleteI actually liked Kevin much more this year than last year, and unlike many, I'm fine w/Garth. That said, I couldn't agree more w/your point about the sow becoming more of an ensemble show, which I do not like.
ReplyDeleteI've said it before, but I do not hate Castiel or Garth or whoever, but I watch primarily for Sam and Dean. In my mind, this is THEIR show. The others are secondary to them. I'm not sure if Carver shares this view. After the disaster (IMO) that was last season, I have ZERO faith in his ability to write a good story that respects Sam and Dean. And just the info about these new angel characters bothers me since I've overloaded on angels.
Honestly, the angels haven't been presented as any better than demons, IMO so it wouldn't surprise me if they did start possessing people w/o permission.
ReplyDeleteZachariah, on more than one occasion, caused the boys mortal injuries in an effort to manipulate them to bow to his will. I loved Uriel, but he wanted to smite everyone all the time. Anna went to the past to kill the boys' parents so they wouldn't be born. Naomi sanctioned the murders of several human beings simply b/c she wanted to find Castiel and then killed that poor girl who was annoying her w/her pain-filled muttering or whatever.
The angels have not been presented as even ambiguous, IMO. I wouldn't trust any of them if I were Sam & Dean.
I had zero problem w/the mind wipe since I didn't really care about Ben or Lisa by that point.
ReplyDeleteGood point. Nothing that happened in the first 7 seasons mattered one jot to Carver last year. Why should anything that happened n the first 8 seasons matter to him in season 9?
ReplyDeleteYou hate every aspect of the show, have absolutely no hope of the show getting better again and you complain about every single line in every single episode and bitch about everything that's post here. I haven't see you said you like something since.............ever. If the show is so awful for you, why are you torturing yourself with it? We heard you the first 900000 time you said Carver ruined everything and will keep ruining it next year too. You said it yourself that the boys got ruined, are bad written, having boring this and that....it must be a painful task for you to sit and endure the pain of watching an episode every week.
ReplyDeleteI disagree that Kevin is useless. What he is doing is apparently very complicated and difficult, not something that can be done properly if rushed. And aren't there more than one Angel tablet? Besides, if he's a prophet, he's one for life, so he needs protecting.
ReplyDeleteI felt of all the newer characters additions, Kevin has had the most growth. He started out a a frightened kid overwhelmed by what was happening to him, to a young man who has accepted his role and even has a sense of mission and purpose, albeit the mental and physical toll on him. Osric has really grown and developed in the role.
As for the angels, my only interest in them is if they are directly tied to the Winchesters arc. I really don't want storytime taken away from the Winchesters just so that the angels can have their own, separate arc. Of course we need other, outside characters to help flesh out Sam and Dean's story, but it's still THEIR story.
Same with Cas. I like him, but I feel that all the other arcs of all the guest and recurring characters should tie in with what should be the bigger, main arc of Sam and Dean, not compete with it. To me, Sam and Dean are the main story or at least should be.
Good points! I've always operated on the theory that Famine affected some "trace elements" of Jimmy that might have still been present, almost like a version of sense memory.
ReplyDelete"the doctors probably thought he was brain dead because Cas was in control of his body"
Canon suggests Cas wasn't in the body at all at that time – the banishing sigil had ejected him. If Jimmy had still been present, then IMO some sign of consciousness would have registered on the hospital monitors. So, I conclude that Jimmy's soul isn't still present in the body with Cas.
Mind swipe was stupid and pointless. It would mean that Cas had to erase everything that occurred during Dean's time with Lisa, her neighbors, friends, and families memories, their pictures together on the shelves, dead boyfriend on the floor, hospital staff memories, etc, and on and on. Besides, the real threat was Dean's memories of THEM, which wasn't erased so they can still be used as a threat to him. Dumb move on Sera Gamble's part.
ReplyDeleteNo, Misha is being made a 3rd lead next season. I still think this is a mistake, unless his story directly affects the Winchesters. I like Cas and I know he has a following, but in my opinion, Dean doesn't get any important storylines to begin with, and now the chance of him actually getting one just lowered further.
ReplyDeleteI just wish SPN would restore the strong, unshakable bond Sam and Dean once had. Of course they had to grow and mature. Of course they have to have other people in their lives that they care about. But I don't get why that means they have to grow apart.
Angels are presented as having always been angels, created by God to serve him. Demons are presented on SPN as having once been humans who died and went to Hell. Hence, if Dean had stayed there, eventually he would have become one too. Not sure about Sam because he was in the cage with Michael and Lucifer so who knows if he would have become a demon or not. So maybe, as we saw in' Sacrifice' it's possible to bring demons back at least partway to their original humanity. Demons start out as humans and then turn.
ReplyDeleteAngels though, always begin as angels. Angels have to fall and lose their grace to become human.And they are apparently not driven by a sense of right or wrong so much as a sense of duty. (maybe the fact that Dean always did what John told him without question, at least at first, ties in with the fact that he was Michael's chosen vessel).To question Heaven's orders is a serious offense we were shown. Cas and Anna, and Lucifer too, for that matter, all questioned and were punished. Of course Lucifer took his rebellion too far............
So yes, just because they're angels of Heaven doesn't necessarily make them good or benevolent. The only angels I really want to see again, except for Cas, would be Michael and Lucifer. Oh and Gabriel but he's dead.
Baby Lilith was awesome. The perfect combo of being freakin adorable and totally creepy as hell. She scared me more than grown Lilith.
ReplyDeleteOther kids I liked were Todd, Audrey, Jesse, and young Sam. I never understood though why they could never find either a kid Dean or Teen Dean that worked. Jensen has dark blond/light brown hair, the color that indicates that he was blond as a child and teen as blond hair darkens with age and his own pictures prove this yet they always use kids with dark hair and brown or blue eyes! It it really so hard to find a cute, blond haired green eyed boy? I thought Teen Dean was the worst, wasn't anything like him.
Correction on Todd: I freakin loved that kid.And it never made any sense to me that they introduced Jesse, the little boy who had the power of obliterating heaven with the blink of an eye, much like Anthony Fremont from Twilight Zone's 'It's a good life" but not as evil. With all that has gone on with Heaven in the last few seasons, I think he would have come in handy. Maybe we'll see him again, now as a teen.
If you mean season 9, no, Misha isn't the third lead, he's a series regular, which is different.
ReplyDeleteMisha has been signed on as a regular next year, but he's also disclosed that his contract is only for 14 episodes. So if he's not in 16, then prepping for directing 17 would be easy.
ReplyDeleteuh, just because isleofskye isn't being positive in every post doesn't mean their reasons for watching or their responses here in open discussion spaces should be ridiculed.
ReplyDeletethis isn't a praise board. they have every right to speak their mind here as anyone else. and if you actually read their comments you'd see that they don't in fact hate everything~ .
honestly your comment comes across extremely rude...
Perhaps Megan_B could've phrased her post more politely, but I think her point is just that, if isleofskye feels the show is consistently terrible, she should just let it go and stop watching.
ReplyDeleteKevin is still needed, storywise, as the Angel tablet still needs translating, and it could have some valuable information about the spell that Metatron did. Details on what, exactly, it did....perhaps a way to reverse it? And, of course, if there are trials to close heaven, as there were with Hell, he'd be needed to decipher those too. That said, I would totally be cool with Kevin and Cas teaming up to tackle the angel problem....except that, with Cas being human now, neither of them is really equipped for combat, which means they still need Sam and Dean ;) Group effort!
ReplyDeleteAs for SPN becoming an ensemble show, while I personally wouldn't mind this happening,I don't think it actually has. For one thing, Kevin's still only a recurring character and doesn't appear anywhere near as frequently as Bobby did or even as much as Cas did when he had recurring status. For another, the regular cast has never exceeded 3 people at any point in time, which would be a fairly small ensemble.
I don't really get your point about too many characters being center stage because, even in series with large ensemble casts, all of the members of the ensemble do not carry equal weight. Generally, there's at least one person who constitutes the "main character" and serves as the central focal point for storytelling purposes. Sam and Dean would continue to be those people for SPN if it did ever expand to an ensemble.
It was stupid, but it got rid of them forever so it was okay w/me. Hahaha :-)
ReplyDeleteBut she can't tell Isleofskye or anyone else what to do. If Isleofskye wants to continue to watch, she can do that. If she doesn't, then she won't. It's really not Megan_B's concern.
ReplyDeleteIf Megan_B finds Isleofskye's comments (or anyone else's) too negative, then she can just skip those comments.
I don't have much interest in the angels at all anymore. I think they behave far too much like demons. I understand not wanting them to be "all good," but they are just as evil, IMO, as demons.
ReplyDeleteIt's not '' isn't being positive in every post'', it's telling how much everything suck in EVERY post, even if the 'spoiler' is ''Sam has 2 legs'' you'll see isleofskye posting how much Carver ruined everything and how much the next season/episode will suck and be the worse episode and the most boring and stupid and ....that ever exist. There's not a single topic where that person doesn't post how much the show is awful. It's just redundant. We heard that Carver destroyed the show and that there's no hope about 100 time without exagerating from that person, we get it.
ReplyDeleteAnd please tell me where I said that everything is perfect and it's a ''praising board'', I said MANY MANY MANY places things I don't like and that things can get better. There's a huge difference between liking thing there and not liking other things and being worry about something....and just hating plain and simple every line of everything.
There's others people unhappy about S8 who still liked some points, and even if they have some apprehension toward next season, they still have some hope it will change, that some thing could be good. But here, all we have is ''an host will be a teen'' (while the character himself won't be and there's chances the actor won't be herself) and we have the exact same arguments about how much everything is awful and will continu to be.
And even if she keeps on watching, where is the obligation to repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat....and reapeat....and repeat again the same arguments over and over and over again? We understand, the show suck because of this and this and that. That just sound like either a robot or a hater.
ReplyDeleteAfter episode 9.XX aired, if it sucked like the dog episode or Bitten or whatever, I'll happily join you to tell everyone how much it was bad, I did it in those episodes for exemple and i'll do it again if I feel I have too. All we have here is a teen host and it's a speech about how the show suck and the episode is ssssoooo awful. I admit I don't get how you can hate something so ...*SO* badly and still watch it, without having a stroke over it, but more than that, how hard can it be to just wait to have more before overeaction so much? And even if she want so badly to overeact at everything, what's the point of repeating the same arguments of how bad the show was in Season X (for the 100th time) when we're talking about an episode of Season 8. Again, not telling we can't talk about the past, but when it's the same arguments everything, we heard it and there's nothing more to say. Unless the point is just having fun hating things
Perhaps....but it is hard for a lot of people to understand why anyone who is unhappy, not with a single plot point or character or episode, but with the series, as a whole, would continue watching indefinitely. And I admit to being one of those people that doesn't understand.
ReplyDeleteI also don't understand the backlash that often results from people offering the suggestion (as that's all it is) that people who are unhappy drop the show, even when it isn't said in a nasty way. What makes it even more boggling is that said backlash usually doesn't consist of things like "Well, I know that I complain a lot about x, y, and z, but I actually still really enjoy these other parts." Most of the time, it's just righteous indignation in defense of their right to be miserable if they want to be. I've even seen people say things like "How dare you tell someone not to watch the show! They could have Nielsen boxes and sink the ratings, and then SPN would be over!" This thinking makes even less sense to me. Even if every single unhappy viewer just so happened to also belong to a Nielsen family and sunk the ratings when they left; and there weren't enough new viewers coming in to counteract them leaving; and all the other CW shows had a surge in viewers, knocking SPN out of the network's top 3; and all of these things ultimately led to SPN being cancelled, why would those people care about it ending? Shouldn't they be happy that the perceived damage being done to their once-favorite series is over? Sure, the people who *were* happy and kept watching would have reason to be sad or disappointed, but they'd get over it, eventually, especially knowing that, at most, the series likely only has one more year left in it.
I will say the same thing to you, that you said to her...if you don't like it, STOP READING THE COMMENTS.
ReplyDeleteWhen I find more I don't like about a show than I do, I take it off my DVR, stopped Bones, Graceland, Rizzoli & Isles( can't stand the mom and Isles), Franklin & Bash and Psych for the same reason, don't care for grown men that act 12. Many more have gone by the way, have better things to do than get an ulcer over a TV show. lol
ReplyDeleteThis comment comes off as a personal attack and as such I have clicked the "flag as inappropriate" link under the arrow to alert the moderators. If you do not like her comments, then it is very easy for you to ignore anything she posts. Part of the reason people come on SpoilerTV is that the community may not always agree but it is always about the show and not about the person commenting.
ReplyDeleteI am one who will not be watching Supernatural in season 9. However to dump this show in particular is harder than most because to most people it has become much more than just a TV show. It's a discussion launching point, friends, social interaction, and a lot of other things - even a business to some. Whatever reasons someone may have for continuing with a show is their own business and they certainly do not need to be told to shut up and stop watching in a public forum. To be honest, most people will not dump a show they have been watching for 7 years simply because they think 1 season has sucked. Usually for me it takes 2 seasons in a row of being mostly unhappy before I dump something, although for SPN season 8 sucked so bad that I cannot afford to give it 2 years. That's just me. Others have the right to continue in the hopes that it will get better and they also have the right to share their opinion about it.
ReplyDeleteYou have absolutely no obligation to read anything that she writes. It sounds like you are also participating in something you find distasteful over and over again and are complaining about it. Stop reading her comments and you break your own cycle of unhappiness over what she says.
ReplyDeleteyou know, me and isleofskye rarely agree and we obviously view the show quite differently. but it is not my place to tell them to stop watching for ANY reason. it is incredibly rude to ridicule their view points and feelings just because i don't agree with them.
ReplyDeletei said this is not a praise board because that means that even constant negative reaction posts are welcome here. because even negative opinions are valid reactions to media. personal attacks are not.
they take time out of their day to not only say negative things~ but if you actually take the time to ask them why they felt the way they do, they will respond in kind. they explain their viewpoint and have been more than willing to engage in debate/discussion in "defense" of their viewpoint.
and you know what, even if they don't agree at the end of an exchange they don't shame folks. they agree to disagree and willingly stop if a middle ground of conversation can't be reached.
isleoskye hasn't personally attacked anyone, that i've seen. they are exercising their right to voice their opinion in an open discussion forum.
you having a problem with "what" is being said and debating with them is one thing. i do it quite often. on this article alone isleofsky have had exchanges of differing opinions.
attacking them personally and making rude comments about them is another thing altogether and that is what you did. you didn't argue the content you attacked the person commenting. not cool.
because even IF isleofskye hates everything, they are watching the show and are within their rights to comment on what they saw. they are within their rights to "complain" about what they spent 45+ minutes of their day watching.
if they only watch for the damn impala and want to gripe about how it was absent for a whole season, you guessed it, they are within their rights to do so.
No offense but I'm as free to read everybody's comments as anyone is free to watch the show. Like I said at more than one place, it's fun having many differents and constructive opinions (and not pure trashing). I'm sorry i sounded offensive, most of the time many people missread me and I don' stop being accuse of liking everything out of nowhere when it's clearly not true for everyone who saw my comments from many episodes of last season and even the one
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry if I sounded so offensive, it wasn't meant to. You're not obliged to read my comments either if you don't agree with them and if they make you unhappy. What can I say? I keep hope^^; really
ReplyDeleteFor the first part; you clearly haven't see me debate on many episodes last season before agreeing to disagree. I didn't see the point of arguing the content cause I argued with her many time on those exact same arguments many time. And again....(sometime I wonder if people actually read my posts before biting my head off....), if the episode is awful OR we have different opinions I'll (and i DID) debate. It's not an episode thing.....But whatever, i'll just shut up now cause nobody seem to read what I write anyway.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait for more 'real' spoilers next week!
ReplyDelete"possessed" would suggest it was against his will.
ReplyDeleteI dunno. I haven't seen any angel doing any duty in the interest of serving God. But then again, I missed some episodes in season six.
ReplyDeleteWow, somebody else likes Garth? Here I thought I was the only one. He's fun for a once a season appearance.
ReplyDelete>> If Megan_B finds Isleofskye's comments (or anyone else's) too negative, then she can just skip those comments. <<
ReplyDeleteOh, if everyone did that, what the hell's the point of the Internet? (:D - Smiley face, I'm having a laugh!)
You hit it right on the head. That's what part of my issue is. It's easier to bail on a series when it's only been on a year or two. Even three. I recently dropped Warehouse 13. Partly because I couldn't remember eff all that happened in the first half of season four - half a result of the LONG HIATUS and half because it didn't impress me much. When I decided I didn't care about any of it anymore, I just quit. But that's three and a half seasons of a show I was never as into as much as, say, SPN. I complained alot about The Sopranos in it's last three seasons. Not so much season six as four and five. But that show meant a LOT to me. Still does. I couldn't just leave, it was like breaking it off with a best friend. So, long comment short, I get it. I get it.
ReplyDeleteJesse bugged me in that he was an obvious lift from GOOD OMENS. Most of that season four/season five SL was lifted from GO.
ReplyDeleteCome on, guys! Let's look at the bright side - at least there's no mention of Hael being a hot, gorgeous or beautiful teenage girl! It's progress! Let's celebrate our victories where we can get them!
ReplyDeleteMaybe it'll be a musical episode. I'm still of the opinion SPN needs to do one. Anything Buffy does every other horror show has permission to do.
ReplyDeleteI'm having good hope their bond will be strong next season after Dean's little speech last episode. just hoping there won't be a new big event to change that
ReplyDeleteno i read what you posted. and that is exactly why i said what i did.
ReplyDeleteyou are being called out for being rude and disrespectful towards another member. not ganged up on because you are misunderstood.
Exactly! This is how I feel as well. No one's ever going to like every single aspect of any given series, and people should definitely be open to criticism, but if it gets to the point where there are more things that frustrate or infuriate you than things you enjoy, it's probably time to cut ties.
ReplyDeleteDumping Supernatural (a show I have spent on average 10 hours a week on in season 8 - far less than seasons in which I loved it by the way) is akin to going through a divorce for me. It has many more far reaching consequences than a lot of people here obviously realize when they tell people to shut up and quit watching. There's a reason why it is called the SPN Family and there are reasons why it is a big decision to let it go. I understand why many people cannot.
ReplyDeleteDahne said it best - whatever reason one has to continue watching a show he/she may no longer enjoy is personal. Maybe, they watch to see if it gets better. Maybe they just want to finish the series. Who really knows? As long as the person is not being rude in his/her comments, then I feel he/she has just as much right to express displeasure w/the show as someone who loves the show has the right to praise it.
ReplyDeleteI've watched Supernatural since its premiere in 2005. I hated last season and didn't think it could get worse, but then this season occurred. I came very, very close to dropping the show this year b/c it just wasn't enjoyable to me. If ATGB hadn't aired, I think I would have stopped watching. That, in and of itself, was a difficult decision. I know it's just a tv show, but all I can say is I really became invested in the tale of the Winchesters. I own all the seasons and just really loved the show. I didn't want to "quit it." I can't really explain. I have enjoyed this show so much that it hurts to not enjoy it. I was hanging on to see if it got better and for me the 2nd half of S8 was much better than the first half, and the 2nd half wasn't all that great.
At this point, I really just want to see how their story ends. If it becomes unbearable, I will likely stop watching b/c the episodes probably won't entertain me as even stand-alones. Much of the first half of S8 was boring to me. I found myself flipping the channel during the show, and that's something I had never done before. If S9 is as boring as S8 turned out to be, I might not watch anymore. My diehard love for the show is gone. It could be rekindled, but I don't think Carve is the one who could do that for me.
I do understand your position though. When you love a show, it is harder to understand why others who seem to hate and/or dislike the show continue to watch and comment. But they have that right. I watch Dexter, True Blood, and The Walking Dead. I infrequently comment on those shows on the IMDb boards where everyone seems to hate the shows. Now, I love all those shows and definitely feel like a minority on those boards b/c they all seem overrun w/fans who hate everything about them. So, I've found myself seeking out like-minded viewers and leaving those who are disgruntled and upset to chat amongst themselves. It may not seem like it, but there is worth and value in knowing you're not the only person to feel a certain way about a show. That's why like-minded people seek each other out. It's nice to hear an opposing view, but it's also good to commiserate w/those who share your views as well.
I don't know if that answered your question but those are my thoughts.
Not to belabor the point, but why do you care why someone else watches a show it appears he/she hates? Why do you need to know? It's not like getting an answer is going to make you appreciate that person's position re: the show any better.
ReplyDeleteWell, I shouldn't speak for you, but I can't see how knowing why some posters on IMDb seem to hate everything about TWD or Dexter or OUAT yet continue to watch would do anything for me. As a viewer who loves everything about each of those shows, I tend to seek out the posts or the viewers who want to discuss the show, not pick it apart. For most of those shows, I don't even go near IMDb anymore b/c there seem to be very few fans who actually enjoy those shows . . . or so it seems.
What I'm saying is it really doesn't matter why someone continues to watch a show he/she dislikes and/or hates. I don't think you need a definitive answer b/c it's clear that the watcher is invested in the show on some level. If the watcher weren't invested on some level, he/she would probably stop watching. I think most people stop watching shows in which they are no longer invested. I easily quit Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me, AHS: Asylum b/c I was no longer interested in what would happen on those shows. Despite my displeasure w/LOST, I watched until the very end b/c I was invested in learning the big secret. Plus, the individual episodes were always entertaining to me. I was never bored during LOST. Was I happy w/the end? Heck no, but I can't say I was ever bored while watching LOST.
Now, what is my or Isleofskye's investment in Supernatural? It could be simply wanting to see how the Winchester story ends and what happens to Sam and Dean or it could be hope that the show returns to its former glory or it could be investment in JA or JP or them both. It could even be to see how bad the show gets.
Again, I don't think it matters all that much why anyone watches a show.
I knew you were :-)
ReplyDeleteYou may see no point in it but clearly Isleofskye feels differently. Again, you do not have to read her comments if they upset you or you find them repetitive.
ReplyDeleteYes, I have already said that I think people are entitled to not like everything about the show, at any point in time, and should always be able to voice those opinions, even if others disagree. And I have definitely been there with this series in the past, as I mentioned, even though I am back to enjoying it now.
ReplyDeleteAlso, thank you for sharing your own reasons for sticking around :) I appreciate the discourse. While I wasn't as unhappy with the first half of the season as others were, I do agree that the second half was stronger, on the whole, barring certain missteps (*cough* Taxi Driver *cough). I am sorry it was not enough to salvage your love for the series, though. If you do decide to stop at some point next year, I would support your decision to go, as I support anyone else who has decided previously.
Here's the problem: You say she makes repetitive arguments and should stop watching the show. We suggest you don't read her comments if you find them repetitive b/c she has the right to say whatever she wants. You rebut by saying you have the right to read her comments.
ReplyDeleteWell, if you read her comments, then you should realize that they may not be positive. If you remark that she should stop watching, people are only going to suggest you not read her comments, and the cycle will continue.
You are, of course, free to read any comment you want and to have a positive outlook on the show. I wish I could be positive like you, but like Isleofskye, I have no faith in Carver to do right by the Winchesters. We'll see what happens.
Hahaha! Nope, not the only one :-)
ReplyDeleteI love DJ Qualls, and I like Garth. I'm not sure why Garth is so disliked, but then I also loved Cassie and Cassie/Dean so I guess I'm just weird like that!
Actually I don't agree with you at all and I think based on your response you don't understand me or what I was trying to say either. However I appreciate that you tried. People react to things differently and everyone has a unique relationship with Supernatural that goes beyond the show itself. In many cases it is a relationship that simply cannot be exchanged for another TV show. That is the point. Telling someone that they should "shut up and go away," which is how the original post came off to me and apparently some others, is what is abusive and not at all needed on SpoilerTV, which has a reputation for avoiding this kind of thing that you find on most Supernatural sites. I am glad that you are happy with the show now. I thoroughly enjoyed it in season 7. We obviously come to Supernatural looking for different things and that is great. We're also obviously reading posts from a different perspective so it feels like we are discussing at cross purposes right now and that only leaves people feeling frustrated so I'm dropping out of this conversation. I wish you a season 9 that meets your expectations.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused as to why you responded to my same post twice....and why your first one seemed to be polite and understanding, whereas this one is coming off more defensive, while restating some of the same points in a different tone. I thanked you for sharing your reasons for sticking with SPN in your other response and said that I appreciated the discourse. Now, you are telling me "why do you care?" and that hearing people's reasons wouldn't actually help me appreciate anyone's perspective when I've literally just told you that it does/did. Perhaps it was an oversight or an accident, but I really don't get where this second reaction is coming from.
ReplyDeleteI did concede, in my original post, that Megan_B could have been nicer about voicing her concerns. Obviously, I agree that "shut up and go away" is dismissive, and there are more constructive ways to handle such conversations. My subsequent posts were remarking more on my curiosity over the general reactions I have seen to *any* posts which suggest viewers leave the series, even if the post isn't rudely stated or even directed at anyone in particular. I don't understand the anger that erupts over what is a very earnest and common thought to have. And while, yes, people do have different ways of interpreting comments or reacting to them, angry posts always lead to more conflict and are ill-advised, at best, because of that. I am sorry if the context made my points confusing to some, and I hope this makes it clearer for anyone else who reads them.
ReplyDeleteI had to laugh at griping about the Impala, I have several friends that complain about the squeaking doors..DEAN PUT SOME GREASE ON THEM..please. lol
ReplyDeleteI like DJ also and watch his series Legit, very funny. I also enjoy Garth, just not the sock. LOL
ReplyDeleteThe sock was very silly, but Garth is cool w/me!
ReplyDeleteI was just curious as to why you care why someone else watches. As I said, I didn't want to belabor the point but I was quite interested in why it matters to you.
ReplyDeleteAnd I did start off by speaking for you, but then caught myself, which is why I said I should only speak for myself. But I'll take my own advice now . . . you can ask whatever questions you want :-)
I'm late to this, but just throwing my two cents in here. I feel like I've had personal experience that directly relates to this discussion.
ReplyDeleteThere was a show a couple of years ago that I was so passionate about and so involved with the show and with the fanbase that it was crazy. I loved that show and loved some of the characters. I felt very, very strongly about it. But there were many things about the show that continuously made me unhappy and frustrated. I would complain and be upset in public forums and have people tell me that if I didn't like the show that I should just quit watching it. And it would make me furious, no matter if they were rude with this comment or said it in a nice way. Who were these people to tell me to quit watching a show that I had loved? I felt like they had no business telling me to quit watching just because I wasn't happy about parts of it. I felt like if I complained long enough and loud enough that things would change, that the show would get better and the things I was hating would change.
Things didn't change no matter how negative I was, no matter what I said, or what I did. It was just more of the same that made me upset over and over again.
After a particularly horrible (to me) season of the show, I decided to quit watching it. I actually wrote a letter.detailing why I was leaving the show and it really did feel like I broke up with someone. But I made my decision. I quit watching the show, I distanced myself from sites and forums about that show. I unfollowed the show's twitter and facebook pages and quit going to blogs and articles talking about the show. I stayed friends with many people that continued to watch the show, but just would not pay any attention to any discussions being held about the show and instead found other interests to share with those friends. And I was so much happier after that.
So I won't tell anyone that they need to stop watching if they don't like it, but I would just like to share my story of how following that unwanted advice in my past ended up making me a much happier person. It hurts to leave a show and a fandom that you love, but I've found that there are always more shows, more books, more fandoms out there that will make you happier in the long run.
Thank you for sharing this story :) It was very insightful.
ReplyDeleteEven though I raged about that drunk demon episode, he made it fun for me. I thought they were getting the Japanese ONRYO spirit mixed up with the SHOJO spirit. No, they took both spirits and merged them together.
ReplyDeleteThe appearance and motives for an ONRYO spirit but with the connection
to alcohol of the SHOJO spirit. For what purpose? I have a good idea -
the HUMOR factor. But Garth made it easier to deal with that nonsense.
Actually something does happen, Cas does the angel signal on himself. Not sure what that would do to the human vessel but I imagine it's possible becoming an angel signal could kill.
ReplyDeleteIf Jimmy was there, he would have not been "brain dead". Call the MBV episode moment a slip up in writing or not, "brain dead" in 5x21 sells it to me.
I can understand people posting your opinions about the show. No problem. I've been a fan from day 1. But I try and steer clear of ALWAYS negatively sharing my thoughts on the show. As far as I have seen yes there are random plot holes, but the whole part about Sam not looking for Dean has honestly been blown way out of proportion.
ReplyDeleteThe show has given all the answers up to and including why Sam did not look for Dean. I have mentioned these before but my ideas as sound as they were, were shot down without anyone actually thinking of them. All I can say is if you quit watching the show because of 1 little thing then why do you comment negatively on it? An open question, not slamming anyone. Just curious as to why someone would waste time commenting on a show they do not watch anymore?
It is sad to see the "fandom" so critical of this show and slamming it without reason. The truth is, the show should have ended with season 5. Sam was always supposed to sacrifice himself. If the show had went out on the high note it would have been much more honest and open. Unfortunately the show runners & producers never went with Sera Gamble's idea before and after the Leviathan escaped Purgatory. Had they went that way the show would have been much more interesting for me, on a personal level.
The major plotholes/plotpoints that have never been addressed are, Dean's necklace, the search for John & Mary in Heaven, More exposition as to why Sam did not look for Dean. Last but not least, something addressing the issue of the promise Dean & Sam made to each other should something happen to either one of them. Namely they already had the agreement, there was NO way Sam could search for him without the specific requirements being met to open the door to Purgatory in the 1st place.
Anyone remember Lucifer's Sword? Or EVE turning the town into "demons"? I wouldn't judge the show too harshly based off of these synopsis which are often incorrect or out of date.
ReplyDeleteDo you remember the change AFTER the Apocalypse? They mentioned in canon about it. They did not expand upon it but I gleaned that not only had monsters changed but so had the entire universe. it went from being one of a predetermined outcome to freewill taking over. That explains a great deal about the changes the last 2 years or so.
ReplyDeleteWhat in particular did you find distasteful about S8? I understand people have their changing opinions and so forth, but honestly if one can set aside the hatred of Jeremy Carver and watch the small points in season 6 where they set the groundwork for why the Supernatural Universe has changed you can come to the conclusion that is why the parts you don't like have changed IMHO. It was mentioned early in season 6 about the change of Destiny VS Freewill.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean about the show not mattering to Carver last year? I'm trying to understand why people think it changed so drastically when the answers to what is bothering them are a part of canon?
ReplyDeleteI actually liked Dawn in season 7. She went from one of my hated to one of my favorites. Shocked the hell out of me.
ReplyDeleteRemember a couple of months ago she rolled up on me with the same stuff? "Why do you keep watching ... " blah blah blippity blah? That really pissed me off and I was amazed I was as diplomatic as I was in reply.
ReplyDeleteThey are portrayed as old testament angels. Anything that paints Angels as all rosy & caring seems to be incorrect as far as they are portrayed. I think a lot of fans base their opinions off of that instead of realizing that Angels are warriors. When God disappeared Raphael & the others disliked it and wanted to rush Paradise into being.
ReplyDeleteI think you over react to the blurbs mentioned. remember these are usually incorrect or out of placement in episode order. People should NOT take that as canon since show runners producers seem to only care for a casting call. I over reacted when they mentioned Lucifer's sword in S4 and nothing came to pass. That is when I realized that casting calls shouldn't be accepted as canonical references. I do not believe they care very much about fandom or it is the furthest thing from their minds when casting episodes.
ReplyDeleteActually the original story by Gamble was pretty cool. The realms known as Heaven, Hell & Purgatory were locks for a creature named Chaos. It is really too bad the show never fully went in that direction. It would have been unique to have another God like creature involved. Too bad death only makes an appearance once or twice a season : /
ReplyDeleteDon't forget what Crowley & Sam mentioned in S6. Since the Apocalypse was derailed and Free Will was more dominant than Destiny, the monsters changed, the circumstances for hunting them changed and everything was effected.
ReplyDeleteNo, but something was mentioned about eh Angels still having some powers. Similar to how castile fell, was cut off from heaven. Some powers remained but no healing or teleportation.
ReplyDeleteNot my favorite episode of Buffy. but yeah S9 needs a truly special meta episode. They ALSO MUST address Adam at some point! Rescue him from the cage. The show will never be forgiven by me if they don't do that :(
ReplyDeleteNo offense but I think you are over reacting. Casting blurbs have split the fandom so much but the fandom has only themselves to blame. This is official episode casting info, I'm sure they don't include this stuff in the Supernatural Bible. Or we would see Lucifer's Sword at some point.
ReplyDeleteI think they need to address John Winchester and physically haul Jeffery Dean Morgan's ass to the set and make him sit & read the lines regardless of consequence. I'm bugged by that and them actually not mounting a rescue for Adam. Plus the necklace.
ReplyDeleteActually if she amended it and edited the word "Bitch" out I do not think the comment would be that inappropriate as it looks now.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting post. I believe the original comment was negative in 2 areas. But often times it is repressed because of the rules of the site. If someone enjoys sharing their opinion about the show they like to interact. I've been a visitor and commented on articles since 2005. This was always THE site for spoilers and had the best overlay, site map etc. I've spent a lot of time and yes while everyone has a right to share, you also have the right to refrain as well. If you don't like it, offer constructive criticisms but sounding so negative all the time brings people down. Not an attack, just a fact. I believe instead of telling isle she should leave what she should have said is. "Could you refrain from always posting something negative? What are the positives with the show in your opinion and what do you like the most?" An Olive Branch soaked in honey wrapped in an honest question can be used instead of a blunt stick.
ReplyDeleteIf they could honestly address 3 issues for you, canon issues, would you watch the show again?
ReplyDeleteI was wondering that too. Castiel said in S5 that there was an open hotline from an ArcAngel and it's vessel. When he activated it Raphael appeared and tracked them immediately afterwards.
ReplyDeleteWatch "Free To Be You And Me". I thought it answered it there about re-entering a vessel once consent has been given. He could leave him, but Michael mentioned he would heal Dean. I doubt Raphael cared about that and left and entered Donnie as he wished.
ReplyDeleteBut as the Apocalype didn't actually happen, stopped by Sam's sacrifice, I took it to mean that it was only Heaven and the angels that had gone into anarchy and that they were the ones with problems, including freewill which they hadn't had before and so didn't know how to handle.
ReplyDeleteX
I didn't think humans or demons were affected.
LOL, maybe as shocked as I have been this season with Burn Notice, I went from can't stand Jesse and he ruined the chemistry of the show, to liking him. But Dawn, for me, was a waste of time. Yeah I know Jesse is NOT a teen. ;)
ReplyDeleteAny time Jeff is on my screen I am a happy camper..love him. What do you want to do about the necklace? Do you think Sam pulled it out of the trash? I heard that Jensen got tired of it hitting him in the mouth and that it had chipped a tooth..true/false, don't know.
ReplyDeletethat's not what is in question in the conversation tho. there is no doubt that angels can return to their vessels as that's what jimmy novak's scene showed.
ReplyDeletewhat was in question was "is consent required each time", because jimmy was giving consent by begging castiel to leave claire and return to him. but we never saw the process for raphael to get back in his meat suit.
michael healing dean isn't something related to vessel issues because any angel with a connection to heaven's powers can heal anyone (except when they can't for plot reasons~)
if consent is treated as a one time deal with a free pass for always, then that has a big impact on sam being that he had said yes to lucifer. and all it would take is for him to break free of the cage and he can return to sam. no yes needed.
No, it doesn't actually.
ReplyDeleteI also think that we can police ourselves. For instance, if X finds Y is always posting negative comments, then X can either debate Y on his/her points or ignore Y. When you frequent a board, you get a sense of the regular posters and the kinds of comments they make. I had so many negative feelings about S8 that I was seen as a "bitter" poster over on TWFB and eventually left b/c I felt I couldn't post freely there. So, if someone chose to ignore my posts, that would be fine.
ReplyDeleteI just don't think it is anyone's place to say someone should stop watching or stop posting their thoughts. Everyone has the ability to ignore a post he/she doesn't like, or as you said, ask the poster what they do like about the show, etc.
I hear what you're saying, but the angels are too similar to demons, IMO. It would be nice if the boys had at least some good supernatural creatures on their side. I thought the angels could have been that, but I was wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe shadowy figure was actually a "cleaner" who worked for the writers making bad things (or canon) disappear.
ReplyDeleteA little off topic but do you remember this board after Jared's dog died? Holy Cow!!! Only time I've seen a mod come on to tell people that they would be ganked if the hateful vitriol continued.
ReplyDeleteYou know I had a '72 Impala that did the same thing. First thought was Lithium Grease!
ReplyDeleteI had a 70 Charger and a 67 Cuda, a little grease worked wonders. ;)
ReplyDeleteI just want to see more of Jared smiling..his smile makes my heart sing. ;)
ReplyDeleteMost of the actors on the CW are 30.
ReplyDelete