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She's playing Sara. Arrow already did the identical twin sister storyline with Shado and I can't see them having her play a clone. She will somehow be resurrected and become the White Canary.
If she was only in flashbacks, i would be really really mad, i would never forgive them for giving us hope and then she would only appear in flashbacks, thats the worst thing they could do
That's what I think too. - Resurrecting her for the third time would really make a mockery of death in the Arrow/Flash universe, not to mention largely undermining the Season 3 storyline in general and Laurel's arc in particular. (And I say that as someone who truly wishes Sara hadn't been killed off... but it DID happen and we can't go back.) - Flashbacks seem unnecessary, I could see it on Arrow if they wanted to make a parallel between Sara and Laurel being trained by Nyssa or something, but what use is it going to be in the spin-off? - A different character played by the same actress would be silly when they can just cast someone else. - A clone/impostor... always possible in this type of universe, but I don't really see the point.
So I'm leaning towards an AU, for two reasons: one, Barry's time travel could very plausibly cause that type of effect; and two, Captain Cold is also in this, and I take it he's a good goy ("Citizen Cold") in the Flashpoint storyline in the comics. So it fits.
Alternate universe thing is moot as GB said this show happens in real time along with Flash and Arrow. Unless Rip Hunter has a method to travel through universes and not just time.
I will be pissed if they make her a completely different character and ask me to believe that.
Sara in flashbacks is also not possible as she is shown to shoot with Ray Palmer, Hawk girl and others already.
A clone/imposter is possible. She could be an android from future. She could be Laurel's descendant from future too thus the facial similarity. But I don't see these people doing something like that.
Honestly it is going to be a mess which ever way they go with all that happened on Arrow this season.
I agree for the most part. I don't necessarily hate the resurrection thing as much as you do and I think there are ways in which it could be done right. It has long been established we are in a universe where the fountain exists and Raj's doesn't age because of that, so it should be possible. But my problem is that it would cheapen death way too much. Like, if they want to kill a character in the future it would be very hard not to feel that they could always go back up and resurrect it.
I think the AU universe would be so much fun and would give us endless possibilities of things to explore. I am so excited with even the possibility. My expectations are however a bit too high due to how well Fringe did it for 2 years, so I really hope they manage it well here as well. Other than Cold and Heat both being main players in a team up show and them both being villains as you mention, I think the fact that Garber, and not Amell, is a regular also hints at a different universe where things went differently. I think the main "con" I have for this is how much they have been building up the Ray Palmer character. It would be odd for him to just disappear from the universe and for us to get an alt version after all of it.
I don't understand why you take those GB's words as a proof that the show is mute. They can easily have Barry or any other character be able to travel through worlds, like Olivia did on Fringe, which would allow them to have all three shows on the same time and crossovers to occur.
The parallel universe Sara due to Barry's time travel cannot happen. If Barry time travels and changes the past which results in Sara being alive then it means everything that happened on Arrow this season did not occur. Laurel did not become BC and Oliver did not become demon's head.
Also flashpoint comics are not like that at all. Cold is not a good guy in the other time line too. I am not sure if you want to know how flashpoint happens. Basically with Flashpoint things change due to Barry saving his mother. But realizing his mistake he goes back and stops himself from saving her. Thus the current status quo remains. I can't see how they can fill in Sara being alive there.
Also if the new show on the whole is in an alternate time line I don't get how crossovers can happen.
Barry can carry people with him when he is running so I don't think it would be a stretch for his ability to evolve in such a way that other people can travel between realms with him. They can also have a new character with that ability.
So every time a character from Arrow has to crossover Barry has to carry them. I can't see it happening unless they create a permanent portal which would be cool. But then again won't they have to show us alternate universe Laurel, Quentin etc.
There are multiple ways for it to happen without them needing Barry. Portals are possible as you've said and I had mentioned them before as well, as is a new character. It may even be a new character from the spin off that goes to Central City or Starling City when a crossover is needed. It's also not as if they would be crossing over ever episode. Arrow and Flash did 3 crossovers this year after all.
As for them needing to show us the alt versions of the characters, two things: 1) Depending on how different things went over there for the outcomes to differ (i.e. Sara alive, Cold and Heat Wave good, only one half of Firestorm, etc.), it is possible some characters have died or are away. 2) They will probably still have the show happen in a third city, so even if the characters exist over there and are alive, they will probably be removed from the main action (same way you don't see arrow characters one every flash episode and vice-versa). That doesn't mean they can't show us those characters every once in a while, which would be feasible and part of the fun of it. It also possible that, following what I said in 1), the characters wouldn't even have a reason to join the main action (for example, it's possible Alt-Felicity never met Oliver and would not know anything about these things, just as an example)
In regards to your first paragraph, that is not a problem. If it is a AU, then everything that happened on Arrow this season still happened in our universe but didn't happen in the AU. So yeah, Alt-Laurel probably wouldn't be the BC, but our Laurel would still be.
I don't think crossovers would happen that happen that often so it really wouldn't be any different than when Barry et all showed up in Starling City with super powers. It is the same thing.
But that's the whole idea of the type of parallel universe I'm referring to: the changes Barry made to the past don't affect our universe. In the "main" Arrow-Flash verse, Sara is still dead (as is Barry's mom), Laurel is still BC, Oliver is still with the LoA, etc etc. Everything is still the same. However, he inadvertedly created another universe where all of these changes take effect.
Also, Fringe, which was mentioned by omabin, had characters crossing over from one universe to another, so it's not impossible. But it's not impossible for there not to BE any crossovers, either, especially if this spin-off is looked at as a limited "event" rather than a full-fledged series. It's a universe that was spawned from events in The Flash, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to have tie-ins with it or Arrow.
However, I don't know anything about the comics and am going off stuff I've read on this site from other people, so... *shrugs*
Ok. I am not on board with this. But I will speculate as it is lots of fun.
Are we sure Captain cold and Heat wave are good guys there? Was it declared? I thought they were going for an uneasy alliance with the good guys to prevent some catastrophe. Also AK said by the end of Flash season 1 finale we will come to know why Robbie Amell/Ronnie is not there in the crossover with Martin. Which means something happens on Flash which will separate these two characters. Will Martin Stein be Firestorm there? Or will Robbie remain Firestorm on Flash? Or it is AU as you say and Martin Stein singularly will be Firestorm in the new show and the actor will have to star in Flash episodes where Firestorm matrix is shown?
I would love to see alternate universe stuff. That was my favorite part in Fringe. But from the BTS photos where it looked like Barry and Oliver are there bringing all these characters together I have doubts it would be. Lets see.
Yeah but nothing else after that. They can easily have one quick scene like that for this as well. And they will probably have Felicity or someone mocking the situation while quickly explaining it to the audience that is unaware.
All of this being said, I don't think they are adopting the perspective of viewers that only watch one show. They seem to be going more and more in the direction of creating a universe. The fact that they have announced they will have a character that is permanently moving around all 3 shows also suggests that. So, regardless of whether or not what you say should be a concern, I don' think it actually is.
I agree with what you've said but in regards to no crossovers, I highly doubt it. Every single interview I've read suggests they want the three shows to co-exist permanently.
I think resurrection can work if it's done very rarely, and in a way that makes clear why it can't be done all the time, for every dead character.
In the case of Sara, I think it will damage the show's credibility a lot if she were resurrected, because not only has Arrow pulled that card quite a few times already (Merlyn, Slade, you might even say Oliver despite the ridiculous claim that being stabbed with a sword and thrown off a cliff didn't kill him...), but they've pulled it - twice - with this very character. Sara supposedly died on the Gambit... then Oliver ran into her again on the freighter a year later. She supposedly died when the freighter sunk in the S2 finale... then Oliver ran into her again in Starling, as the Canary, 4 years later. How many times can the writers revisit that well? At some point, "what's dead should stay dead", in the words of Dean Winchester.
Regarding Ray - it depends on what type of AU it is, but if it's what I'm thinking about, it doesn't mean he'll be gone from the main Arrow/Flash universe. Neither will Captain Cold, Heat Wave or Dr. Stein. As in Fringe, there can be two versions of every character. (Of course, given the gruelling filming schedule would otherwise occur, all of these characters might temporarily be off-canvas in the mothership series to free the actors up for the spin-off.)
But in Flashpoint all the changes Barry made does not make a new universe. It is the same universe but different events happened due to one change. His mom being saved by adult Barry. So when he realises the mistake he goes back and stop himself from saving her.
So its not like Fringe at all. He is not going back and forth between different universes. He changes our universe.
Regarding crossover that will happen for sure since not just GB but SA, DR, AK and MG confirmed it is going to happen.
White Canary being a villain in the comics is irrelevant to the show. In the Comics Shado was a Japanese Yakuzaa Assassin, that raped Oliver and fatherd a son with him.(pre 52). In 52 she was older than Oliver and was Robert Queen's mistress and mother of his daughter (Emiko) she was still a Yakuzza Assassin and member of The Outsiders.
In the show, Shado was a Chinese human rights lawyer, a heroic person, "a good guy" who died a good person.
You could say the same about The Huntress/Helena, she's certainly more of a villain in Arrow than a hero or even anti-hero. Which goes against her role in the comics.
I see. Well, in that case I have no idea what's gonna happen... I still don't think they're going to resurrect Sara permanently, so maybe Barry corrects his mistake and undoes all the changes to the timeline, as you said - including her being alive. (Would that count as Sara dying for the fourth time? LOL.)
My guess is they took a character who has least history but has a costume and selected that for Sara. White Canary even though a villain had only a small run. 8 issues. SO they have freedom to make her heroic, anti hero or villainous in this new show. My guess is she will be a hero.
The alt universe was also my favorite part of Fringe, by far, which is why I love all this, even the possibility of it. I will be disappointed if they just resurrect Sara. By the way, I a curious: if you love alt stuff and all that, why aren't you on board with this here? It's perfectly fine not to be, but I don't understand what is it that you dislike.
In answering your questions: - No, it hasn't been declared they were going to be good guys.But I fail to see how they would have not one, but two villains around as regular permanently. Yeah I realize Malcom is around and you can throw that to my face but he is Thea's father and is thus closely connected with the main mythology. Also, when you announce a show as a "super hero team up show" and almost half of the announced cast are two villains, that doesn't really fit the bill of super heros, does it? I think your idea of an easy alliance is possible but I don't think it would be sustainable as a long term thing and I don't think the two characters would be needed for that - As for the Firestorm thing, I don't have a specific theory about it and there are various ways it could go. I think the most obvious one is that Stein is the Firestorm body on the AU and Ronnie is the Firestorm body on Flash (probably upgraded to a regular). I think they will make Amell a regular on flash anyway, and I think that is the real reason why he won't be part of the spin-off. I think they are building him and Caitlin up to be a long term thing, so they don't want them in separate shows. What you suggest about Garber singularly being Stern on the alt and bein the scientist/ advisory person for the team over there while Firestorm is no more on Flash (due to something that happens in the finale) is also possible.
I can see one thing happening. Rip Hunter the new time traveller character goes back in time like Dr. Who and brings our Sara into the future. But she has to finish this mission that she was brought for and then be send back in to the past so that she can die.
I understand what you are saying on resurrection. I would also rather not see it happen, I was just saying that on this particular case, the show has somehow protected itself from it since it has long introduced the concept of a pit that has that property.
I agree with you on Ray, I had the whole filming schedule limitation in mind when speaking before. My point is that it would be odd to have this version of the character to be this much developed and then just put aside for the most part. It is however possible they move this version of the character over there permanently like they did with Lincoln on Fringe when Alt-Lincoln died (RIP). Like Ray realizing he is needed more over there than over here and that he has no place in Felicity's life and all that.
I do not dislike it at all. My logical mind does not find this to be happening with all the spoilers we got about this show. Also they took time establishing Ray Palmer in Arrow verse, building connections with our Oliver, Felicity, CIsco, Barry etc. So if it is AU the AU Ray Palmer won't have these attachments to our characters. So I don't see it feasible.
- Captain cold and Heat wave.. I still don't think they will be heroes. If AU then yes. But if it is our Arrow verse then they might grudgingly work with the good guys. That's why I asked if it was confirmed they were on the good side in the new show.
They really need to give us more info on this show.
True. They can. I read long ago somewhere that Barry or Wally West I am not sure who was able to run between universes too. Between earth 2 and earth prime or something like that. So it could be possible.
I agree entirely on Cold and Wave, but that was exactly my previous point. If it is Arrow verse, it will obvious be the way you are saying. But my point is that 1) I don't think that is a long term possibility and 2) That would feel forced for the most part and pointless to have both of them I think. So that is why I think this is a hint that it will have to be AU.
I do agree with you on Ray though. However, as I was saying to Alex before, they can easily go the Lincoln route on Fringe. They can have AU Palmer dead (maybe he was killed when Anna was) and then they can have our Palmer realized that our Starling City is already protected well enough by Ollie and company and also realizing that he has no place in Felicity's life and moving over there. This doesn't really address the whole Ray-Cisco thing but then again, they also took the time to build Felicity-Barry last year and they are also on different shows.
Regarding Helena Bertenelli/The Huntress. They're actully suprisingly faithfull. She was very dark and vengance driven at first too, shunned by the rest of the "good guys" for her willingness to kill. It was only after she found solace in her civilian career as a children's teacher that she became more well adjusted and a proper hero in Birds of Prey.
While we haven't seen her in live action, she did pop back up in the Season 2.5 comics helping Oliver and Roy rescue Felicity and seems to be on a definitive redemption track for the future.
If it is our Ray Palmer in that universe then its fine. Otherwise the Ray Palmer there won't have the same connections. So if it is AU then may be Ray Palmer and Martin Stein from our universe joins the others there. Well that can happen and it will have two characters as a bridge to Flarrow verse. Still don't think it will be an AU though LOL.
Yeah that is what I was suggesting. Though I think Stein can be the one from over there right away, but Palmer is probably ours. I am torn on what I think will happen, but I think there is a reasonable chance that this does happen, even if resurrection is also a possibility. But I know this is by far what I would like to happen.
I always felt it'd be parallel Sara. Still do. I'm surprised a lot think it's resurrected Sara. Didn't think that choice would be winning this poll. But I guess I could see why.
Yep, Diggle was unavalible as backup due to a mission with the Suicide Squad. So Lyla pulled strings and arranged for Helena to get a temporary furlough from prison. She's definatly on a redemption track for later if there's an option for Jessica de Gouw to return.
I have troubles with LP-ing Thea next week, hoping she is at least a bit alive. I just don't like it feels majorly like cheating through the storyline.
Eh I still think it'll be a time travel resurrection.
Rip Hunter needs her skills for something but she's dead when she was needed most. So he'll pull her from the past a bit before her death so she can live to fight another day. Eventually she'll have to be returned to die (so the events of Flash and Arrow can play out). It'll play in to the angst and heartbreaking factor since we know from the getgo that her days are numbered.
I wouldn't worry too much about the LP being a way of cheating death in the Arrow-verse. It has some serious consequences and I think they're adding a new one unique to the show.
Doubt so. I assume there will be consequences but no major ones. Roy is coming back to say goodbye to Thea. So she will be fine and if she wasn't doubt Oliver would let her go.
I do like that theory, especially if you up the tragic/angst a bit more and add that she can't reveal herself to any of her old family or friends without breaking the time stream. So whenever Diggle or anyone else from Arrow that knew her comes around she must mask her features, hide or not speak at all.
But that would require quality writing and care about such things as character continuity from Guggenheim & Co. So I'm not holding out much hope.
I think since Arrow has decided to introduce the Lazarus Pit, she could possibly be ressurected. Flashbacks sound like a nice idea by that's kind-of Arrows thing. If you notice each DC shoe on the CW has its own thing. Arrow has Flashbacks, on The Flash Barry sometime narrartes the show and on iZombie they sometimes have spots where the show freezes and looks like a comic book page
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She's playing White Canary, according to reports.
ReplyDeleteShe's playing Sara. Arrow already did the identical twin sister storyline with Shado and I can't see them having her play a clone. She will somehow be resurrected and become the White Canary.
ReplyDeleteno Sara's good not evil
ReplyDeleteresurrected
ReplyDeleteIf she was only in flashbacks, i would be really really mad, i would never forgive them for giving us hope and then she would only appear in flashbacks, thats the worst thing they could do
Parallel universe is my guess and hope
ReplyDeleteThat's what I think too.
ReplyDelete- Resurrecting her for the third time would really make a mockery of death in the Arrow/Flash universe, not to mention largely undermining the Season 3 storyline in general and Laurel's arc in particular. (And I say that as someone who truly wishes Sara hadn't been killed off... but it DID happen and we can't go back.)
- Flashbacks seem unnecessary, I could see it on Arrow if they wanted to make a parallel between Sara and Laurel being trained by Nyssa or something, but what use is it going to be in the spin-off?
- A different character played by the same actress would be silly when they can just cast someone else.
- A clone/impostor... always possible in this type of universe, but I don't really see the point.
So I'm leaning towards an AU, for two reasons: one, Barry's time travel could very plausibly cause that type of effect; and two, Captain Cold is also in this, and I take it he's a good goy ("Citizen Cold") in the Flashpoint storyline in the comics. So it fits.
Sara resurrected.
ReplyDeleteAlternate universe thing is moot as GB said this show happens in real time along with Flash and Arrow. Unless Rip Hunter has a method to travel through universes and not just time.
I will be pissed if they make her a completely different character and ask me to believe that.
Sara in flashbacks is also not possible as she is shown to shoot with Ray Palmer, Hawk girl and others already.
A clone/imposter is possible. She could be an android from future. She could be Laurel's descendant from future too thus the facial similarity. But I don't see these people doing something like that.
Honestly it is going to be a mess which ever way they go with all that happened on Arrow this season.
The Sara we know won't be the Sara resurrected. I think she will come back more messed up than she was when she died.
ReplyDeleteI agree for the most part. I don't necessarily hate the resurrection thing as much as you do and I think there are ways in which it could be done right. It has long been established we are in a universe where the fountain exists and Raj's doesn't age because of that, so it should be possible. But my problem is that it would cheapen death way too much. Like, if they want to kill a character in the future it would be very hard not to feel that they could always go back up and resurrect it.
ReplyDeleteI think the AU universe would be so much fun and would give us endless possibilities of things to explore. I am so excited with even the possibility. My expectations are however a bit too high due to how well Fringe did it for 2 years, so I really hope they manage it well here as well. Other than Cold and Heat both being main players in a team up show and them both being villains as you mention, I think the fact that Garber, and not Amell, is a regular also hints at a different universe where things went differently. I think the main "con" I have for this is how much they have been building up the Ray Palmer character. It would be odd for him to just disappear from the universe and for us to get an alt version after all of it.
I don't understand why you take those GB's words as a proof that the show is mute. They can easily have Barry or any other character be able to travel through worlds, like Olivia did on Fringe, which would allow them to have all three shows on the same time and crossovers to occur.
ReplyDeleteThe parallel universe Sara due to Barry's time travel cannot happen. If Barry time travels and changes the past which results in Sara being alive then it means everything that happened on Arrow this season did not occur. Laurel did not become BC and Oliver did not become demon's head.
ReplyDeleteAlso flashpoint comics are not like that at all. Cold is not a good guy in the other time line too. I am not sure if you want to know how flashpoint happens. Basically with Flashpoint things change due to Barry saving his mother. But realizing his mistake he goes back and stops himself from saving her. Thus the current status quo remains. I can't see how they can fill in Sara being alive there.
Also if the new show on the whole is in an alternate time line I don't get how crossovers can happen.
Together with Oliver?
ReplyDeleteBarry I get. But how will Felicity, Diggle and Oliver crossover between universes?
ReplyDeleteBarry can carry people with him when he is running so I don't think it would be a stretch for his ability to evolve in such a way that other people can travel between realms with him. They can also have a new character with that ability.
ReplyDeleteThat can easily be done, yes.
ReplyDeleteHow they gonna explain for people who only watch Arrow though?
ReplyDeleteSo every time a character from Arrow has to crossover Barry has to carry them. I can't see it happening unless they create a permanent portal which would be cool. But then again won't they have to show us alternate universe Laurel, Quentin etc.
ReplyDeleteThere are multiple ways for it to happen without them needing Barry. Portals are possible as you've said and I had mentioned them before as well, as is a new character. It may even be a new character from the spin off that goes to Central City or Starling City when a crossover is needed. It's also not as if they would be crossing over ever episode. Arrow and Flash did 3 crossovers this year after all.
ReplyDeleteAs for them needing to show us the alt versions of the characters, two things:
1) Depending on how different things went over there for the outcomes to differ (i.e. Sara alive, Cold and Heat Wave good, only one half of Firestorm, etc.), it is possible some characters have died or are away.
2) They will probably still have the show happen in a third city, so even if the characters exist over there and are alive, they will probably be removed from the main action (same way you don't see arrow characters one every flash episode and vice-versa). That doesn't mean they can't show us those characters every once in a while, which would be feasible and part of the fun of it. It also possible that, following what I said in 1), the characters wouldn't even have a reason to join the main action (for example, it's possible Alt-Felicity never met Oliver and would not know anything about these things, just as an example)
In regards to your first paragraph, that is not a problem. If it is a AU, then everything that happened on Arrow this season still happened in our universe but didn't happen in the AU. So yeah, Alt-Laurel probably wouldn't be the BC, but our Laurel would still be.
ReplyDeleteThis also answers your second point.
As for your third point, I've answered above.
I don't think crossovers would happen that happen that often so it really wouldn't be any different than when Barry et all showed up in Starling City with super powers. It is the same thing.
ReplyDeleteBut that's the whole idea of the type of parallel universe I'm referring to: the changes Barry made to the past don't affect our universe. In the "main" Arrow-Flash verse, Sara is still dead (as is Barry's mom), Laurel is still BC, Oliver is still with the LoA, etc etc. Everything is still the same. However, he inadvertedly created another universe where all of these changes take effect.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Fringe, which was mentioned by omabin, had characters crossing over from one universe to another, so it's not impossible. But it's not impossible for there not to BE any crossovers, either, especially if this spin-off is looked at as a limited "event" rather than a full-fledged series. It's a universe that was spawned from events in The Flash, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to have tie-ins with it or Arrow.
However, I don't know anything about the comics and am going off stuff I've read on this site from other people, so... *shrugs*
Well they showed on Arrow how Barry go struck with lightning.
ReplyDeleteBringing Sara back to life is my best guest and I hope that's what they do.
ReplyDeleteOk. I am not on board with this. But I will speculate as it is lots of fun.
ReplyDeleteAre we sure Captain cold and Heat wave are good guys there? Was it declared? I thought they were going for an uneasy alliance with the good guys to prevent some catastrophe. Also AK said by the end of Flash season 1 finale we will come to know why Robbie Amell/Ronnie is not there in the crossover with Martin. Which means something happens on Flash which will separate these two characters. Will Martin Stein be Firestorm there? Or will Robbie remain Firestorm on Flash? Or it is AU as you say and Martin Stein singularly will be Firestorm in the new show and the actor will have to star in Flash episodes where Firestorm matrix is shown?
I would love to see alternate universe stuff. That was my favorite part in Fringe. But from the BTS photos where it looked like Barry and Oliver are there bringing all these characters together I have doubts it would be. Lets see.
Yeah but nothing else after that. They can easily have one quick scene like that for this as well. And they will probably have Felicity or someone mocking the situation while quickly explaining it to the audience that is unaware.
ReplyDeleteAll of this being said, I don't think they are adopting the perspective of viewers that only watch one show. They seem to be going more and more in the direction of creating a universe. The fact that they have announced they will have a character that is permanently moving around all 3 shows also suggests that. So, regardless of whether or not what you say should be a concern, I don' think it actually is.
I agree with what you've said but in regards to no crossovers, I highly doubt it. Every single interview I've read suggests they want the three shows to co-exist permanently.
ReplyDeleteI think resurrection can work if it's done very rarely, and in a way that makes clear why it can't be done all the time, for every dead character.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of Sara, I think it will damage the show's credibility a lot if she were resurrected, because not only has Arrow pulled that card quite a few times already (Merlyn, Slade, you might even say Oliver despite the ridiculous claim that being stabbed with a sword and thrown off a cliff didn't kill him...), but they've pulled it - twice - with this very character. Sara supposedly died on the Gambit... then Oliver ran into her again on the freighter a year later. She supposedly died when the freighter sunk in the S2 finale... then Oliver ran into her again in Starling, as the Canary, 4 years later. How many times can the writers revisit that well? At some point, "what's dead should stay dead", in the words of Dean Winchester.
Regarding Ray - it depends on what type of AU it is, but if it's what I'm thinking about, it doesn't mean he'll be gone from the main Arrow/Flash universe. Neither will Captain Cold, Heat Wave or Dr. Stein. As in Fringe, there can be two versions of every character. (Of course, given the gruelling filming schedule would otherwise occur, all of these characters might temporarily be off-canvas in the mothership series to free the actors up for the spin-off.)
But in Flashpoint all the changes Barry made does not make a new universe. It is the same universe but different events happened due to one change. His mom being saved by adult Barry. So when he realises the mistake he goes back and stop himself from saving her.
ReplyDeleteSo its not like Fringe at all. He is not going back and forth between different universes. He changes our universe.
Regarding crossover that will happen for sure since not just GB but SA, DR, AK and MG confirmed it is going to happen.
If SARA even approached that LP, I'll stop watching Arrow, Flash and that Spin off( I know that doesn't mean anything to anyone but still).
ReplyDeleteWhite Canary being a villain in the comics is irrelevant to the show. In the Comics Shado was a Japanese Yakuzaa Assassin, that raped Oliver and fatherd a son with him.(pre 52). In 52 she was older than Oliver and was Robert Queen's mistress and mother of his daughter (Emiko) she was still a Yakuzza Assassin and member of The Outsiders.
ReplyDeleteIn the show, Shado was a Chinese human rights lawyer, a heroic person, "a good guy" who died a good person.
You could say the same about The Huntress/Helena, she's certainly more of a villain in Arrow than a hero or even anti-hero. Which goes against her role in the comics.
I see. Well, in that case I have no idea what's gonna happen... I still don't think they're going to resurrect Sara permanently, so maybe Barry corrects his mistake and undoes all the changes to the timeline, as you said - including her being alive. (Would that count as Sara dying for the fourth time? LOL.)
ReplyDeleteMy guess is they took a character who has least history but has a costume and selected that for Sara. White Canary even though a villain had only a small run. 8 issues. SO they have freedom to make her heroic, anti hero or villainous in this new show. My guess is she will be a hero.
ReplyDeleteThe alt universe was also my favorite part of Fringe, by far, which is why I love all this, even the possibility of it. I will be disappointed if they just resurrect Sara. By the way, I a curious: if you love alt stuff and all that, why aren't you on board with this here? It's perfectly fine not to be, but I don't understand what is it that you dislike.
ReplyDeleteIn answering your questions:
- No, it hasn't been declared they were going to be good guys.But I fail to see how they would have not one, but two villains around as regular permanently. Yeah I realize Malcom is around and you can throw that to my face but he is Thea's father and is thus closely connected with the main mythology. Also, when you announce a show as a "super hero team up show" and almost half of the announced cast are two villains, that doesn't really fit the bill of super heros, does it? I think your idea of an easy alliance is possible but I don't think it would be sustainable as a long term thing and I don't think the two characters would be needed for that
- As for the Firestorm thing, I don't have a specific theory about it and there are various ways it could go. I think the most obvious one is that Stein is the Firestorm body on the AU and Ronnie is the Firestorm body on Flash (probably upgraded to a regular). I think they will make Amell a regular on flash anyway, and I think that is the real reason why he won't be part of the spin-off. I think they are building him and Caitlin up to be a long term thing, so they don't want them in separate shows. What you suggest about Garber singularly being Stern on the alt and bein the scientist/ advisory person for the team over there while Firestorm is no more on Flash (due to something that happens in the finale) is also possible.
I can see one thing happening. Rip Hunter the new time traveller character goes back in time like Dr. Who and brings our Sara into the future. But she has to finish this mission that she was brought for and then be send back in to the past so that she can die.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are saying but they could go about it differently on the show. I don't think that is a necessary condition.
ReplyDeleteI really Sara isn't resurrected,that will make the entire season 3 pointless in a way!
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping for a different character altogether TBH!
I understand what you are saying on resurrection. I would also rather not see it happen, I was just saying that on this particular case, the show has somehow protected itself from it since it has long introduced the concept of a pit that has that property.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on Ray, I had the whole filming schedule limitation in mind when speaking before. My point is that it would be odd to have this version of the character to be this much developed and then just put aside for the most part. It is however possible they move this version of the character over there permanently like they did with Lincoln on Fringe when Alt-Lincoln died (RIP). Like Ray realizing he is needed more over there than over here and that he has no place in Felicity's life and all that.
I do not dislike it at all. My logical mind does not find this to be happening with all the spoilers we got about this show. Also they took time establishing Ray Palmer in Arrow verse, building connections with our Oliver, Felicity, CIsco, Barry etc. So if it is AU the AU Ray Palmer won't have these attachments to our characters. So I don't see it feasible.
ReplyDelete- Captain cold and Heat wave.. I still don't think they will be heroes. If AU then yes. But if it is our Arrow verse then they might grudgingly work with the good guys. That's why I asked if it was confirmed they were on the good side in the new show.
They really need to give us more info on this show.
True. They can. I read long ago somewhere that Barry or Wally West I am not sure who was able to run between universes too. Between earth 2 and earth prime or something like that. So it could be possible.
ReplyDeleteI agree entirely on Cold and Wave, but that was exactly my previous point. If it is Arrow verse, it will obvious be the way you are saying. But my point is that 1) I don't think that is a long term possibility and 2) That would feel forced for the most part and pointless to have both of them I think. So that is why I think this is a hint that it will have to be AU.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you on Ray though. However, as I was saying to Alex before, they can easily go the Lincoln route on Fringe. They can have AU Palmer dead (maybe he was killed when Anna was) and then they can have our Palmer realized that our Starling City is already protected well enough by Ollie and company and also realizing that he has no place in Felicity's life and moving over there. This doesn't really address the whole Ray-Cisco thing but then again, they also took the time to build Felicity-Barry last year and they are also on different shows.
Regarding Helena Bertenelli/The Huntress. They're actully suprisingly faithfull. She was very dark and vengance driven at first too, shunned by the rest of the "good guys" for her willingness to kill. It was only after she found solace in her civilian career as a children's teacher that she became more well adjusted and a proper hero in Birds of Prey.
ReplyDeleteWhile we haven't seen her in live action, she did pop back up in the Season 2.5 comics helping Oliver and Roy rescue Felicity and seems to be on a definitive redemption track for the future.
If it is our Ray Palmer in that universe then its fine. Otherwise the Ray Palmer there won't have the same connections. So if it is AU then may be Ray Palmer and Martin Stein from our universe joins the others there. Well that can happen and it will have two characters as a bridge to Flarrow verse. Still don't think it will be an AU though LOL.
ReplyDeleteYeah that is what I was suggesting. Though I think Stein can be the one from over there right away, but Palmer is probably ours. I am torn on what I think will happen, but I think there is a reasonable chance that this does happen, even if resurrection is also a possibility. But I know this is by far what I would like to happen.
ReplyDeleteShe will be sara somehow resurrected.It may be a time travel event like flashpoint that resurrects her.
ReplyDeletePrefered option is Paralell Universe Sara. Resurrecting her for the Nth time is silly.
ReplyDeleteI always felt it'd be parallel Sara. Still do. I'm surprised a lot think it's resurrected Sara. Didn't think that choice would be winning this poll. But I guess I could see why.
ReplyDeleteHelena Bertenelli helped SAVE someone after causing a lot of chaos?! whoa never thought i'd see the day but cool. So what are Sara's chances?
ReplyDeleteso there's a chance they won't destroy Sara?
ReplyDeleteYep, Diggle was unavalible as backup due to a mission with the Suicide Squad. So Lyla pulled strings and arranged for Helena to get a temporary furlough from prison. She's definatly on a redemption track for later if there's an option for Jessica de Gouw to return.
ReplyDeleteReally hoping for Sara resurrected.
ReplyDeleteI have troubles with LP-ing Thea next week, hoping she is at least a bit alive. I just don't like it feels majorly like cheating through the storyline.
ReplyDeleteEh I still think it'll be a time travel resurrection.
ReplyDeleteRip Hunter needs her skills for something but she's dead when she was needed most. So he'll pull her from the past a bit before her death so she can live to fight another day. Eventually she'll have to be returned to die (so the events of Flash and Arrow can play out). It'll play in to the angst and heartbreaking factor since we know from the getgo that her days are numbered.
I wouldn't worry too much about the LP being a way of cheating death in the Arrow-verse. It has some serious consequences and I think they're adding a new one unique to the show.
ReplyDeleteDoubt so. I assume there will be consequences but no major ones. Roy is coming back to say goodbye to Thea. So she will be fine and if she wasn't doubt Oliver would let her go.
ReplyDeleteI do like that theory, especially if you up the tragic/angst a bit more and add that she can't reveal herself to any of her old family or friends without breaking the time stream. So whenever Diggle or anyone else from Arrow that knew her comes around she must mask her features, hide or not speak at all.
ReplyDeleteBut that would require quality writing and care about such things as character continuity from Guggenheim & Co. So I'm not holding out much hope.
She's White Canary.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe we'll get Flashpoint anymore, sadly.
I think since Arrow has decided to introduce the Lazarus Pit, she could possibly be ressurected. Flashbacks sound like a nice idea by that's kind-of Arrows thing. If you notice each DC shoe on the CW has its own thing. Arrow has Flashbacks, on The Flash Barry sometime narrartes the show and on iZombie they sometimes have spots where the show freezes and looks like a comic book page
ReplyDeleteOne of the wisest things Dean Winchester ever said, only to be shot to oblivion by subsequent writers and episodes.
ReplyDeleteOliver narrated in part of season one of Arrow too. I am hoping they will similarly drop it in The Flash next season.
ReplyDelete