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Ratings News - 19th March 2015

19 Mar 2015

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  • Last Week's Final Adjusted Ratings


  • Early Ratings Analysis by Marc Berman (TVMediaInsights)
    The analysis below is based on the early household numbers and are NOT the same as the numbers that will be posted in the above table later. (See the About section below)

    NOTE: The opinions expressed here are NOT those of SpoilerTV but of the Author of this Article, Marc Berman.

    Metered Market Wednesday Rating
    More Growth for the Hefty “Empire” Season-Ender

    Wednesday 3/18/15

    Household
    Rating/Share
    Fox 10.8/17
    CBS 5.3/ 9
    ABC 4.0/ 7
    NBC 3.0/ 5
    CW 1.5/ 2

    -Percent Change from Year-Ago Evening – Wednesday 3/19/14
    Fox: +61, ABC: +48, CBS: -17, CW: -21, NBC: -23

    ———-

    Note: The following labels are based on the household overnights and are subject to change given the availability of other pending data streams. These overnights are your first look at the ratings and a precursor to what could lie ahead. And we take into account other benchmarks including the expected demographic ratings, potential DVR usage, the critical acclaim (or lack of) and the social media presence.

    -Winners:
    “Empire” (Fox)

    -Honorable Mention:
    “Survivor” (CBS), “The Untold Story of The Sound of Music” (ABC)

    -Losers (excluding repeats):
    Nothing…38 percent of the line-up was in repeats.

    ———-

    Ratings Breakdown:
    “Empire” on Fox, the biggest new network series hit in years, concluded its first season with two episodes and more record ratings last night. The 8-9 p.m. installment scored a 10.4 rating/17 share in the household overnights, which was three percent above the record 10.1/16 one week earlier (at 9 p.m.). And the regularly scheduled 9-10 p.m. edition rose to an 11.2/17, which compared to the already potent series debut on Jan. 14 (6.8/10) was an increase of 65 percent.

    Ratings for “Empire” grew every week, with the 10.1/16 last week translating into 14.92 million viewers and a 5.8 rating/17 share among adults 18-49 (based on the Live + Same Day data). “Empire” more than doubled the No. 2 occupant in the 8-10 p.m. block, two episodes of “Survivor” on CBS (5.4/ 9). And “Empire’s” advantage over two-hours of “American Idol” on the year-ago evening (6.7/11 on 3/19/14) was 61 percent. Once the Live +7 Day is factored in, “Empire” should have no trouble surpassing 20-million viewers. This is what you would call a massive hit.

    Twelve-episode overnight track for “Empire”: 6.8/10 – 7.3/11 – 7.6/12 – 7.9/12 – 8.0/12 – 8.2/13 – 8.8/13 – 9.2/14 – 9.6/15 – 10.1/16 – 10.4/17 – 11.2/17.

    Despite facing “Empire,” two episodes of “Survivor” on CBS remained successfully afloat with a 5.4/ 9 in the household overnights from 8-10 p.m., which was just four percent below the 5.6/ 9 for the regularly scheduled 8-9 p.m. edition last week. And that translated into a respectable 2.2 rating/8 share among adults 18-49, based on the Live + Plus Same Day data. Fortunately, things took an interesting turn on the veteran reality/competition franchise.

    Next on the Eye net was episode three of “CSI: Cyber,” which slipped to a second-place 5.1/ 9 at 10 p.m. Comparably, that was 19 percent below the 6.3/11 one week earlier (which was already modest in adults 18-49, with a 1.7/ 6, based on the Live + Same Day data). If CBS decides to grant parent “CSI” a 16th season, there is really no need to keep modest “CSI: Cyber” on the air. Three-week overnight track for “CSI: Cyber”: 6.4/121 – 6.3/11 – 5.1/ 9.

    Over at ABC, repeats of “The Middle” ((#3: 3.8/ 6), “The Goldbergs” (#3: 3.2/ 5), “Modern Family” (#3: 3.7/ 6) and “black-ish” (#4: 2.9/ 5) populated the 8-10 p.m. block, leading into a dominant 5.2/ 9 for 10 p.m. entry, “The Untold Story of The Sound of Music” – A Diane Sawyer Special. Comparably, the “Sound of Music” special was 42 percent above the 3.6/ 6 for the most recent installment of regularly scheduled “Nashville” on March 4.

    Elsewhere, NBC offered encore telecasts of on-the-fence “The Mysteries of Laura” (#4: 3.0/ 5) and already renewed “Law & Order: SVU” (#4: 3.2/ 5) and “Chicago PD” (#3: 2.7/ 5). And The CW scored a typical 1.8/ 3 in the overnights for “Arrow” (#5) at 8 p.m. into new Wednesday 9 p.m. occupant “Supernatural” at a 1.3/ 2.

    Source: Nielsen Media Research data


  • About the Daily Ratings
    Each day (except Sunday) during the main TV Season we post the TV Ratings for the previous nights primetime shows for the major broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, CW, FOX, NBC). Cable Network ratings will be added to the Ratings Database.

    The first item that gets posted (normally around 2pm GMT) is the early overnight analysis based on the early household numbers (these are not the same as the Total Viewers and 18-49 Demo numbers that are posted later).

    Next, if available, we will post the Top 25 Market 18-49 Ratings to give you a rough idea of the ratings to following.

    Later on (normally between 4pm-5pm GMT) we post the official early overnight Total Viewers and 18-49 Demo numbers in the table above (We also where possible now post the 18-34 and 25-54 Demo Numbers).

    Finally, later in the evening (10pm-11pm GMT) or the following day, the final adjusted ratings numbers are released, these are then posted in the Ratings Database. The Final Adjusted numbers are what we use for all our Renew/Cancellation Tables, Full Season Tables, Ratings Scorecards etc (see below). Friday's Final Adjusted Ratings are normally available on the following Monday.

    If you are new to ratings or still confused, we recommend you read this excellent
    Ratings FAQ.

    Don't forget to follow our Ratings Only Twitter Account for the latest Ratings News


  • Additional Ratings Resources
    If you’re interested in Ratings/Renewals/Cancellations then we have a number of resources here at SpoilerTV that we recommend you check out.

    Renew/Cancel
    Our Cancellation/Renewal predictions for the current season.
    Ratings Database
    Historical Ratings Database for nearly all major US shows going back to their first episodes.
    Full Season Tables
    The current season full ratings tables for both Total Viewers and 18-49 Demos
    Ratings Scorecard
    See how all the shows stack up against each other in the Ratings Scorecard Table.


Tables being updated live. Please refresh for updates.

388 comments:

  1. A few people have been thinking that Empire will have a full season order next season, so I thought I'd leave this here:
    Another way Empire plans to avoid the dreaded sophomore slump is to stick to a smaller episode order (Season 1 is only 12 episodes). Though the episode order for Season 2 hasn't been announced yet, Strong told reporters "I don't think 22 is a discussion."


    Full article here: http://www.tvguide.com/news/empire-finale-preview-danny-strong-jussie-smollett-bryshere-gray/

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  2. Great for Empire. Looks like it crossed the 6.0 mark for the second episode.

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  3. Don't know what Arrow did last time, but seems steady. Think it will hit 1.0
    Finger crossed!

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  4. It will more than 12, and fewer than 22.
    http://www.vulture.com/2015/03/empire-showrunner-ilene-chaiken-on-the-finale.html

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  5. Top 25 Markets 18-49 Demo Ratings have been posted

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  6. Damn at Empire nearly at a 6.9

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  7. I still cannot believe they will do that. FOX would have to be insane to allow such a thing. Just do two seasons within one TGIT style using American Idol as bridge in Wednesday and problem solved. FOX cannot afford to let this thing off the air. Not to mention that most sophomore slumps have come from shows that refused to to full seasons hence resulting in high audience erosion in between, so saying that they will do a smaller season to avoid the slump is really an unsubstantiated claim. They might end up doing that, but I don't even know how I would classify that in terms of how big a mistake that would be.

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  8. Supernstural looks pretty down. Damn.

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  9. I know right!!!! AAAAHHHH!!!

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  10. I found is shocking that a lot of people on twitter last night thought the time was 9-11 instead of 8-10. So I expected the 8-9 hour to be lower. But AMAZING nevertheless!!!

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  11. If SPN can keep the 0.7 with the move in against that monster I will take it.

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  12. I'd be surprised if Empire airs more than 15 episodes a season. The cast/crew is dedicated to making sure that it does not air a regular 22 episode season as they are convinced it will ruin the show. FOX has absolutely no leverage as it's the only show doing well for them.


    Scream Queens/Empire will likely share a timeslot on Wednesdays.

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  13. Go empire! proves if the shows is entertaining the viewers WILL WATCH it

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  14. Considering Arrow went against Empire season finale it did well!

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  15. Empire is amazing, really! Such a monster!

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  16. according to DarkUfo, the 2nd hour did a 7.7

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  17. I know, but still not happy.

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  18. Yep it won't have a full 22 episode season, for some reason actors that are primarily in movies don't like being in long tv seasons, examples are Viola Davis' How to Get Away With Murder and Kevin Bacon's The Following.

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  19. At the end, FOX should do what the writers are comfortable with. If they don't want to do a full season, then FOX should respect their decision. |Forcing them to do more episodes will definitely effect the quality of the show.

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  20. Because they want to work on movies and they can't conciliate a full season filming schedule with the scheduling for the movie.

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  21. Arrow looks to have hit lows. Damn :/ This looks like a 0.8-0.9.

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  22. That's because they still want to do movies. 22 episodes as a lead means 9 to 10 months continuous shooting and you have to miss out on projects.


    There's no way half of Empire's cast would have signed on if it wasn't more of a limited series each year.

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  23. And the CW spring slump continues (although arrow and spn never stood a change against empire)

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  24. Cyber seems to have sunk. But judging from the top25 markets, the ABC line-up held well even a 7.7 from Empire.

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  25. Looks typical of spring to me. They were at .7-.9 not far from this time last season. I figured they'd get a .7 or a .6.

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  26. CSI Cyber falls down... Quite expected the critics destroyed it...

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  27. Which slump are you referring to? So far, Jane the Virgin's ratings are in line or higher than fall ratings (the winter ratings were artificially inflated by the absence of the voice), the originals and vampire diaries are just a tiny bit down (last week originals did 0.55 and tvd a 0.64 so they almost adjusted up and the originals had hit other 0.5s in the fall before), the flash didn't hit a new low despite airing on st. patrick's day, whereas Reign and Hart of Dixie were stable. Arrow and Supernatural may go against this but so far I've seen nothing to indicate a spring slump.

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  28. Arrow went up against Empire, of course it was gonna take a hit.

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  29. "At the end, FOX should do what the writers are comfortable with."

    Agreed. And they will. Or else Empire will say, fine, we'll go to ABC, CBS, or NBC. And a bidding war would start as they would meet their demands.

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  30. Is it possible that Empire hit a 7 for the second hour? Because, if it did....

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  31. Plz Arrow don't break my heart :(

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  32. I think it will:/

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  33. And they can do that? Aren't they contractually obligated to FOX?

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  34. I disagree. The show could afford to loose literally 2 points or something and still be a monster. This is not a normal situation at all. The writers should just take it and deal with it in this case.

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  35. They can't just get up and leave.

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  36. No, they can't do that.

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  37. Only to the terms that they agreed to. If FOX makes any other plays, they can easily move on.

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  38. They cannot do that. FOX actually owns Empire so it is the other way around, they can fire the showrunners if they refuse to do as they are told.

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  39. ABC repeats did well against Empire !

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  40. I was afraid this was going to happen but I wanted to be wrong :(

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  41. It got a 2.0 for the last episode.

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  42. Thought so. I very much doubted the cast and actors would simply pack their stuff and try and find a new network home.


    I'm sure FOX would've sued the hell out of them.

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  43. From top 25 markets it looks like a 0.8-0.9. I would love to get a 1.0 but looks like a very long shot now :/ Damn! We were going so well!

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  44. Those writers / producers are extremely unprofessional. And stupid too. Hopefully Fox execs are smart enough to fire one of them to set an example. Then others would STFU and do 22+ epsiodes as it's normal in broadcast business.

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  45. Nope, they can't do that.

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  46. Yes. Usual top25 markets skew is 91% for Empire so a 7.7 should translate roughly to a 7.0. Unbelievable.

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  47. Disagree with you there.

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  48. It's a monster! So excited to watch the finale!

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  49. I might have to try and watch this again.

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  50. You definitely should.

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  51. I'd prefer quality to quantity, and so would many other viewers.

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  52. "I'm sure FOX would've sued the hell out of them."

    Of course the can. But any good contract lawyer would get it thrown out. FOX had the project brought to them. Imagine TV made the terms and agreed to the deal. And it's theirs to fulfill and leave if they don't agree to anything outside of what is fulfilled.

    But this is getting into contract law.

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  53. Studios owns shows. Look what happened with Sleepy Hollow showrunner when he refused to do it more proedural.

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  54. i think it did well going up against Empire

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  55. That's insane logic. They signed on for 12 episodes, the reason the show worked so well was because how packed episodes were with great stuff. And the actors are big names with other commitments. Just Like Game of Thrones and Walking Dead and Mad Men and the 345874 other shows that only do 7 - 13 episodes a year, people will tune back in.

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  56. I know! And the episode was really good but if the Flash didn't do very well with an epic episode like that, Arrow didn't stand a chance especially when it went against Empire :\

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  57. Totally wrong. You completely don't understand how it works.

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  58. That has literally nothing to do with this. 12 people watch Sleepy Holly, 15 million watch Empire.

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  59. It did what i expected. Empire & DST. Empire Finale was an event, you couldnt miss.

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  60. Agreed but I was hoping for better numbers because the episode was really good.

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  61. But when FOX bought the project and developed it, it became their property. They own it. It's *theirs*.


    The actors/writers/everyone might get out of the contract if they can prove that FOX deliberately broke the terms upon which it was initially formulated, but unless FOX itself sold the show, no one can bid on it.


    Because it's FOX show at the end of the day. They bought it, they own it.

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  62. "Game on, bitches".

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  63. Just imagine what the number could've been is everyone watched at home! I know a lot of people went to Empire parties lol

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  64. Feel free to enlighten me as I don't mind being corrected, but I'm confident that's the contract process.

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  65. Well I missed it. I don't even watch the show.

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  66. For people who actually watch the show.

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  67. Yeah it was really good, i think it will go back up next week. Next weeks episode looks really good.

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  68. The point is that is a secondary concern. Empire will average roughly a 5.0 for the season. If they have it on for half a season, then it is 5.0*0.5+1.5*0.5=3.1 average for the timeslot. And this is being very generous and assuming its replacement would score league average ratings which is very very doubtful (See Red Band Society).

    If they have it on for the full season, even if it falls almost a full point from the 5.0 average (which is very unlikely since this 5.0 average is very depressed by early episodes that went below 4), then it would still be around a 4.0 average. It's way too big of a difference here for it to be passable. FOX needs it. If quality has to suffer a bit, so be it in this case, but they cannot afford not to do it.

    Besides, there are plenty of examples of shows who have been able to do 22 episode seasons while keeping quality, essentially by doing two seasons within one (see: Scandal, Once Upon a Time). Empire writers have to tackle the challenge, work more, demand more money sure, and do their jobs.

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  69. I know I was joking.

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  70. I think people might have decided to watch Empire due to the big event & because i saw mixed feeling about 3x16 before it aired. And people wanted to rather watch Empire then be disappointed by Arrow.

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  71. Which is exactly why FOX will push that much harder for Empire!

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  72. Arrow shouldn't have aired this week.. the CW should have changed its return date as soon as FOX scheduled a two hours season finale for Empire.
    Even I watched Empire live and DVRed Arrow this week and I LOVE Arrow..

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  73. Congratulations Empire!!! You deserves it!!!

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  74. As I expected, 0.7 for SPN will be the win. I afraid it going to hit series low 0.6. Finale of finale of Empire and move to another night in spring. CW is asking too much from this 10yo show. It was very decent episode btw. Sad :(

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  75. The intellectual property reverts back to Imagine TV. It's their idea, it's their concept to run with. The only thing holding the show to FOX is the terms agreed upon. Any breakage and they can leave. Now of course, FOX can counter sue, come up with a similar idea, or go through a lengthy appeal process that can tie up any pending deal, but it's within Imagine TV's legal rights to leave FOX if there's a breach of contract.

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  76. You are completely off here. FOX owns the show. They can even fire the creators, which has happened before in many other shows (Revenge, The Walking Dead, etc.).

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  77. I admit I was one of the people who were dreading this episode. I was so ready to be angry and disappointed. Never been happier to be wrong though.

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  78. I will watch it tonight. Hope to like it too.

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  79. As expected. Series low?

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  80. Yes, I agree that this was odd scheduling.

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  81. Fox owns Empire via 20th Century Fox Television. They can fire any writer / producer / showrunner at any time they want, and thus strip them off their salary per episode.
    Creators of the show (Danny Strong, Lee Daniels) and producers (Ilene Chaiken...) have points in backend profit, and Fox can never strip them (and other profit participants) off that and similar (residuals, royalties) money.

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  82. i´m refering to the numbers being down for all since DTS and start of spring hence spring slump, now i´m not saying it will continue just stating facts here the ratings are down for all shows that have aired episodes since DTS/spring.


    the voice aired against to and jtv last fall,and before DTS jane was at 0.6 so its down


    TO and Tvd are both down by alot in viewers and the demo is dropping as well same applies to Reign. And the fall 0.5 for TO included a NYC pre empt so thats not the same as those last 2 0.5.


    Hart of dixie hasn´t aired a new episode since DTS started last one was march 6th,


    Arrow and SPN seems to be down from the last episode who aired before DTS , flash was down by 0.2.

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  83. At this moment, I am convinced that it won't be a full season order. Guess we'll find in May during the upfronts.

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  84. Ah, ok. Sometimes, humor doesn't translate well on the internet.

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  85. I can see that. I'm interested to see what happens the following week after when people get settled into the move.

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  86. Sleepy Hollows Creators were fired just this season and will have new people in charge for next season so yeah when a show is sold it's not the original creators show anymore.

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  87. Supernatural hit 0.6s while airing on Friday. I doubt it sets a new series low tonight. Could tie it though.

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  88. It's their idea but they sold it to FOX. When FOX bought the show, it bought all the legal rights attached to it. So the intelectual property remains in FOX's playground.


    I'm pretty sure that when they signed a contract upon FOX's pick-up, they signed a contract that gave FOX all ownership of anything related to the series.
    So, unless FOX itself decides to, no one can bid on Empire. Because they own it.

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  89. I am not arguing anymore about whether or not it is likely to happen. I can't really predict that with much accuracy. Just saying that if it doesn't happen, I will consider a mistake of epic proportions. In my opinion, it must happen.

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  90. It's a 20th Fox TV-produced show, they own it now, the same way Universal owns every piece of Imagine Entertainment property they had bought and produced like Friday Night Lights and Parenthood.

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  91. You haven't seen it yet? Oh you will, I guarantee it. The show finally focused on Oliver. It was a very character driven episode.

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  92. Actually around 4-6 million, about half of Empire's audience.

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  93. So excited for it!

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  94. I doubt it go 0.5, but I see 0.6 today. Will break my hart.

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  95. I envy you a little, wish I could see it for the first time too lol

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  96. I agree with you and I think the show works so well with this amount of episodes. And some shows should be like this. Empire, Hannibal , cable shows...I think the networks will start to think about it. I'm tired of shows that do 22 episodes and 6 or 8 of them don't add anytinhg on the main story. IMO

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  97. I also have yet to watch The Flash, I didn't have time yesterday. So I will watch them back to back today. I love when I do that!

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  98. It has everything to do with it.
    Ownership is ownership, it has nothing to do with ratings and popularity of the show.
    Fail, sit.

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  99. WOW now I REALLY envy you. Oh boy are you in for a treat. There are no words to describe how epic the Flash episode was. Actually there was a tweet that said "The Flash looks at your season finale, laughs and says I call this episode 15".

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  100. By the way, Survivor looks below a 2.0 and Cyber looks below 1.5 already even without Chicago PD

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  101. IKR? Sometimes I feel like I should write (humor/sarcasm) after a comment :D

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  102. oh, my poor SPN :(

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  103. Wow that's an epic tweet. I've heard praise literally everywhere about The Flash episode. I actually have yet to decide the order in which I will watch them. Recommendations? I tend to do Arrow-Flash since I find the transition from dark to light tone better than the other way around, but I dunno.

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  104. Goffman was quoted as saying his terms of contract ran out. So yes, he left because his original deal was fulfilled and he didn't agree to the new terms. That's in his legal right to do. FOX didn't step in until after he decided to leave voluntarily (according to the Goffman's take).

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  105. Sucks for SPN. Hopefully it'll adjust up later, but it's not really a surprise. With DST + Empire finale + Move to Wednesdays, it was bound to have a bad time. Viewership is probably gonna be in the 1 millions.

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  106. They make shows for money. Period.
    It's a freaking nightime soap, it's easy to write 44 episode of that stuff (if one is professional, which Empire authors obviously are not).
    No one signed for 12 episodes only. Viola Davis and Kevin Bacon signed for 15 episodes, but this is not that case here.
    Sit, you failed completely.

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  107. Surprisingly Berman didn't label SPN this time as a looser or commented something like "aging and tired". What happened?

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  108. Fun fact, Arrow was lighter than the Flash this week, go figure! But I do recommend Arrow first. You will be blown away with the Flash so you might hold Arrow to a higher standards than you should. For the sake of objectivity I'd watch Arrow first.

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  109. Probably Arrow is low too, sadly, so retention should look decent and he loves that metric. Also, probably even he has to give it a certain type of pass for going up against what looks like a 7.0 drama rating.

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  110. Every network has to be looking at Empire and wondering what they're doing wrong. I love it. I hope it shakes things up. We need more shows that think outside of the soap and procedural box. Fox just proved it can be done on network TV, not just cable.

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  111. Surprised with that, I was expecting something heavy from Arrow, so I guess Flash is the one who gets deep dark for its usual self. I will do that then, thanks!

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  112. OMG EMPIRE!!!! I predict 6.0 for the first and a 7.0 for the 2ND HOUR. THAT'S IS INSANEEEE
    Arrow and SPN down... at least now iZombie and TO/JTV results seems on par with the lower avarage caused by DST and spring

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  113. So is this the first time a show touched a 7 demo since.?

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  114. I think that ABC, FOX and CW have been trying a lot of out of the box things. CBS is always very conservative and other than stuff like Person of Interest they don't really deviate. And NBC is almost incapable of coming up with their own ideas, they need to hang on to successful things the other networks do for the most part.

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  115. "Sit, you failed completely."

    Let's be respectful. Everyone has a right to share their opinion without judgement.

    As for Hanson, she went on Wendy Williams and told her that she signed on because it was only 12 episodes per year. So actors do get attached to episode counts.

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  116. Yeah the Flash was very heavy on the drama this week. Anytime :)

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  117. Last Sunday, The Walking Dead.

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  118. I'm sure he meant broadcast-wise.

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  119. Taraji P.Henson was doing a procedural 22 episodes a week just two years ago. I remain doubtful she would really refuse to do 22 of Empire, which she clearly enjoys more, and for which she could easily demand much more money.

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  120. Come up with something more intelligent than "sit, you failed" for every response. Whats the point of being a dick? This is just an online conversation about a tv show dude. The fact is Empire won't be doing 22 episodes next year, nor do I want it to. Nearly every show I watch and still enjoy has lower episode counts today, it makes the series a real event, lets them drop any filler episodes and allows the actors and writers to do other projects. You keep spreading your widsom though ;)

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  121. Cyber has bad reviews, it definitely hurt the show... The fact it's doing like a Sunday night without being againts a new episode of something is quite bad...

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  122. The success of Empire, I think, is due to the fact that it taps the full-potential of the African-American community.


    Other shows have tried and done so to certain levels of success, like Scandal. But the problem with Scandal is that only female African-American are watching.


    Empire is being watched by both African-American males and females. Obviously, white people are watching too but let's not forget that a majority of Empire's viewers are AA.

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  123. I've never watched Empire and don't know anyone who has. I guess I'd better catch up. It looks like an incredible show.

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  124. Then it is probably Two and a Half Men's Season 9 opener with a 10.7. Could be wrong though.

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  125. But at the heart of the show, isn't Empire just a family soap set in the world of hip hop?


    FOX got lucky that something hit big and I'm not sure if any network can duplicate it. Networks have tried for their own version of The Walking Dead for years and they haven't found it.

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  126. Wow @ Empire!

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  127. But the reason she left POI is because she wanted to do movies.


    It would be kind of cynical if she moved to do 22 episodes with Empire if she wanted to do movies.

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  128. There is not going to be 22 episodes. The draw to show is the all star cast most of whom are movie stars. Taraji has already stated that she took the job because she could work six months and have six months off to do other projects. Currently, She is in New York filming a bio pic of Richard Pryor's life with Lee Daniels. This is not your typical tv cast where your leads are virtual unknowns. These are folks are use to negotiating contracts, and many of the actors have produced their own movies. They bet on themselves quite frequently, and I am pretty sure they negotiated contracts betting on themselves and their loyal fanbase.


    Everyone's talking about Luther and the American version to come, and how it won't be as good as the BBC version with Eldris. Eldris has already stated that he will be doing the American version of Luther. It's cost efficient for studios to do a short order for these high draw talents in order to get them in the first place. American may be just getting to know the folks on Empire, but their cast and producers are like movie royalty in the African-American community.

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  129. Christopher DeBono19 March 2015 at 14:09

    Yeah I believe your right. Before that I think it was Glee with a 9.9 about 6 months earlier.

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  130. Besides TWD, I guess so

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  131. Empire shooting out NFL numbers. CW knew better then that.

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  132. I agree on The CW. They have something for everyone and they're still shaking things up. ABC, for me, is 85% soap opera's that could air on daytime. Nothing that makes them unique. Just more of the same. CBS is conservative and I really wish they would look at what Empire has done. NBC, eh. I agree.

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  133. Lol so did i. But my reason is i cant stand Terrance "Baby Wipes" Howard.

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  134. And 2 Broke Girl's series premiere.
    But drama wise, only post SB shows have rated higher in recent years. I think Grey's or Lost were the last oned to go as high in recent memory

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  135. Grey's S5 to a 7.4 way back in the 2008-2009 season.

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  136. It's not like any soap opera on ABC or daytime so that's what makes it stand out. All shows have soapy tendencies. This one just worked for reasons other networks haven't figured out yet.

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  137. Farewell Parks and Rec19 March 2015 at 14:13

    MONSTER.

    Go Empire!

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  138. If CSI: Cyber falls below a 1.5, then I'd be really intrigued to see how CBS responds. I still think that CBS would want to keep CSI going in some form, due to it being a lucrative syndication property.

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  139. OH MY GOD AT EMPIRE

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  140. Yep it's going to be HUGE.

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  141. I consider Once Upon a Time the most unique show on the entire television. I don't know how you could be more imaginative than that. Then there is a show about a girl going undercover to the Hamptons to get revenge, also an out there concept. A show about a political fixer involved with the President is also pretty unique. They need to have their share of traditional things (Castle, Forever, Nashville) but they do go out there quite often.

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  142. Farewell Parks and Rec19 March 2015 at 14:14

    As @omabin said. 2.5 Men and 2 Broke Girls permits in 2011 (10.7 and 7.1)

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  143. OUAT is the most unique show.


    As for Revenge, it's not really an out-there concept. Revenge is one of the main pillars for story-telling (the need to extract revenge from someone that did you wrong), so while the setting might be slightly unique, it's not an out-there concept.


    As for Scandal, I also wouldn't count it as an out-there concept because it's basically a chief-with-an-aid kind of relationship, with the difference of the Chief being the President and the aid being a political fixer. But other than that? Not really all that surprising.

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  144. You called me insane, dick and added some other insults ... now you're talking about foul language? Because I just said you "failed"? Unbelievable.
    Yes, you completely failed, as you obviously don't understand how things work. It is just online conversation about TV show., true. So I don't get why you're so obsessed with just a nightime soap.

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  145. Drama-wise, Grey's Anatomy season 5 premiered to a 7.4 in 2008-2009 season.

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  146. probably got bored using the same old slam against SPN...he's been saying it for years. :D

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  147. Where does obsessed come from? I havent even seen the finale yet lol.

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  148. They still like having CSI Vegas on air (even if that Sunday night time slot killed the ratings)... So I could see them renewing CSI Vegas for a final season to give it a proper ending. Or try it on another night (it did quite good after the two NCIS repeats).
    If CSI Cyber dips more, it's probably going to be cancelled... I'm quite curious to see it against new episode of Chicago PD

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  149. With that logic, Empire isn't that much out-there either. To me, the standard to see what is a different concept is something that deviates from the traditional genres of cop shows, law shows, teen shows and medical shows. I guess comic book shows should also become a traditional genre given recent tendencies.

    Revenge, Scandal and Empire, to me, all deviate from this, so I consider them original. Obviously not on the same level as Once Upon a Time, but still very originals. I think your mileage for defining an original show may vary, but this is pretty much mine. And for the record, I don't necessarily need a show to be original for it to be enjoyable sometimes (I love watching a Scorpion episode for instance).

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  150. Dude called me "insane", "dick" and whatever, and you have no problem with it, but you have problem with my "you failed"?

    Well, you failed too. And you're actually whose disrespectful here.

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  151. Yep, I hate filler episodes, too.

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  152. They are unique but their targets are not. Empire was made to target the masses. ABC is made to target women. There is nothing wrong with that but if you want better numbers, you need a broader audience.

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  153. I don't necessarily see why the target for Empire would be any different than say the target for How to Get Away with Murder. Obviously it is, but I cannot really explain where that difference lies.

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  154. I tend to do that most of the time, lol, especially when I am being sarcastic.

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  155. I never said Empire is an out-there show, either.
    It's not. Is your basic family soap that knew how to exploit its audience and how to get people watching. Empire was tailor-made to appeal to the Twitter crowd (kind like Scandal did in S2), with their OMG and out-of-the-top moments.


    But there's nothing inherently unique with Empire.

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  156. HOLY. Predictions for Empire?

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  157. Shows to me don't need to be unique to be good. They just need to excel at what they propose themselves to do. If Empire proposes itself to have out of the top moments and be damn good at doing so and if it does that damn well, as it does in my opinion, everything perfect with me. That is kind of why I watch shows from basically every single genre on tv.

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  158. 6.3 for the average of both halves, with the first hour doing mid to high 5s and the second hour actually breaking a 7.0

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  159. and they took Stalker off the schedule for 1.2. Good job CBS

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  160. I love Stalker but Cyber likely did a 1.4 last night and Stalker wouldn't have done any better if it was on.

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  161. 11 consecutive weeks of increase in viewership! #1 album! #1 broadcast drama! That's EMPIRE!

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  162. I had to go to Google to understand what you meant hahaha

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  163. Seems like a wise approach perhaps I should give it a try lol

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  164. If Cyber is cancelled, then I think CBS should try CSI on Tuesdays at 10. It did really well when its lead-in were repeats, maybe it can have better hold when they are new episodes.


    CM spin-off on Wednesdays at 11, maybe?

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  165. That's the top 25, which tend to increase for CBS.

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  166. That's the top25 market rating only. CBS shows (Cyber in particular) tend to go up from that in nationals.

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  167. You were the one who was disrespectful in the first place.

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  168. They need the Tuesday slot to launch a new drama, they won't waste it with a dying procedural there. If CSI is renewed, and that is a considerable if, it is for spackle purposes and not for a fall slot, in my opinion. I think they launch Super Girl Wednesdays at 9 and launch a new drama Tuesdays at 10 (a procedural old skewing one). Then I think the 10pm hours of Monday, Wednesday and Thursday will involve, in some order, Criminal Minds, NCIS LA and a third new drama.

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  169. Tuesdays at 10 should not be used to launch a new drama. That timeslot like Mondays at 10 PM have been disaster after disaster for new CBS shows in the past 5 years.

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  170. Ya it was only going up against the final hour of the biggest hit on network TV that managed to get a 7.7 in the top 25

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  171. In episode 3, Stalker got a 1.7, and Cyber is going to do lower than this. And it had no competition, while Stalker aired against Nashville, Chicago PD and AHS. Cyber is doing bad.

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  172. yeah CM + CM spin-off on Wednesday seems to be a good idea !
    CSI Vegas would be doing better elsewhere, I guess the Tuesday night after NCIS seems great. It was doing good after those two repeats (at least better than PoI after 2 brand new NCIS episodes ^^)

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  173. Why do you need to lie? He called me insane.

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  174. There are three metrics one should consider when analyzing how good a timeslot is:
    - Lead in : New Orleans, except for its last outing, is an unspectacular but solidly rated lead-in, so check
    - Viewing levels : Tuesday is a decently viewed day. 10pm isn't the best, but they don't have more 9pm slots available, so this is will have to do. Check
    - Competition : ABC is damn incompetent in the hour, Sons of the Anarchy is over on cable and while Chicago Fire is very solid, it is not a powerhouse. So check.

    Therefore, it is a good timeslot. Just because a lot of shows failed there, doesn't mean the contrary. Just means the shows were incompetent.

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  175. That was fall, this is spring. Stalker had a better lead-in. But ultimately, Stalker did start doing poorly.

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  176. Stalker had a higher rated and more compatible lead-in and was airing in a higher viewed portion of the year. I think Cyber's numbers from last night (assuming they are 1.4-1.5) are comparable to the 1.7 Stalker pulled in better conditions.

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  177. I think Doubt could do well on Tuesdays at 10. CBS is real stepping out of their of there comfort zone with different kind of procedurals.

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  178. Yes, but CSI has a strong name for CBS, so they were expecting stronger numbers than this. Cyber IS NOT doing better than Stalker.

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  179. I agree it would be an option. And yes, CBS is trying to branch out. It's funny that they still force everything to be a procedural, but they have obviously realized that, for the most part, straight up cop procedural is not working anymore. Scorpion, Person of Interest, Stalker are good examples of CBS trying to adapt and capture viewers a bit younger while keeping their syndication avenues wide open.

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  180. He didn't call you insane, he called your logic insane.

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  181. Not so much stronger. CM was doing 2.4 at best, while now it's doing around a 2.0

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  182. Yep, I did roll my eyes when they said that Supergirl would be a procedural, but ultimately that's what works for them.

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