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Supernatural – Episode 10.02 – The Gripe Review

19 Oct 2014

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This is a bizarre review, completely unprecedented, even to me. I went into the episode thinking it would be more of the same old, and I’d have nothing new to say about it besides what I already said last week. The thoughts that emerged at the end however were unlike anything I expected.

To avoid spoiling anything I'll get right to it. This one will be character based too, like last week, with my overall view on the episode coming at the end.



Sam: Sam continues to impress me. If he keeps bringing his A game to the show like this every week I might have to stop denying being called his fan, and embrace my newborn, inner Sam Girl, at least for as long as the writers keep writing him so well.

When Sam got kidnapped last week I was worried we were heading toward yet another iteration of Sam looking like a helpless damsel and Dean beating the living daylight out of whoever had kidnapped him. Thankfully, and to the chorus of my inappropriately loud cheering, he got himself out of his conundrum himself. He used his brain to do it, you know the advanced gray matter the writers keep forgetting about, and opened the door to new possibilities for plot progression.

As if that wasn’t already great he also called Castiel, telling him Dean was a demon and asking him to help find him. I'd like to think he was as bored as I was with his friend’s pointless non-story and was trying to steer him back to action. Too bad it didn’t work.

The only time Sam came close to a stumble was when he met and talked with Dean. I thought he was about to melt into a puddle of "We are brothers!" blubber, but he pulled himself together quickly and brought out the handcuffs. I would have loved to see him try to put them on Dean, and Demon Dean's face when he inevitably failed, but some guy burst in and ruined the fun.


Generic revenge guy Cole: Last week I thought Cole was a hunter chasing Demon Dean. I had crazy ideas about his background, how he had heard of Demon Dean, and what he wanted with him. I couldn’t wait to find out.

This week they revealed the truth it was yet another humdrum revenge story.

In a fiction writing class I took a long time ago an instructor told us revenge was the easiest and most clichéd tool a writer could use to give a character motivation. It was something everyone understood and few questioned (especially when family members were involved.) An instant launch pad for the character to fly head first into action. It was also cheap and overdone and if one could come up with a more innovative way to make the character embark on a quest they should choose it. That is one reason why stories like Fullmetal Alchemist and Final Fantasy VII are masterpieces. They have exceptional quests at their core, but the reasons behind those quests make them even better, and set them apart from the hordes of similar stories.

Unfortunately Cole’s motivation was good old revenge, and when he started yappity yapping about his father and how he had dreamed about finding and killing Dean I yawned and went to pour myself a drink.


Dean: As soon as Dean's stripper song started I downed my drink and strapped myself in for yet another hour of douchebag, sexist Winchester. He didn't disappoint in his first act, getting rude and aggressive with the stripper, punching the security guard who came to her rescue..., caveman stuff. By the time he accepted a job to kill a jealous husband's cheating wife I was convinced Carver was on a mission to make Dean the champion of misogyny.

But then something interesting happened. The husband showed up and proved to be an even bigger douche than the demon. Just as I thought he would get a high five from Dean, and perhaps an invitation to have a beer together once the job was done, Dean first laughed at him, then rubbed hypocrisy into his face, then stabbed him. And thus he won back all the points he had lost with me last episode.

Here is a lesson in how to create a fallen hero: don't make him despicable, just unlawful. An unlawful character could still be categorized as a villain, but the audience wouldn't dislike him even if what he does isn't morally acceptable. Sawyer from Lost is a perfect example of this.

Dean didn't kill the husband because the man was a slimy loser. He killed him because he tried to pull rank on him as the holder of the CRD contract. However he killed a character the audience didn't feel much sorry for, so his act of villainy wasn't contemptible, not like when he beat the bouncer or insulted the women. Furthermore his act here established a core trait for his character. We now know Demon Dean doesn't like to be bossed around and could predict his actions based on that.


When Cole showed up to the Sam and Dean party, haranguing his 'my poor daddy' woes, Dean humiliated and beat him up too, doing the thing I, and perhaps every audience member fed up with generic revenge guys, wished to do. To top it off he mocked his pity party with priceless dialogue such as, "What did you think was gonna happen here? You just stroll up here and say, 'My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.' and I'd just fold? " in perfect Jensen drawl. That scene was so hilarious, well-acted, and satisfying I mentally stood up and clapped for Dean. In the span of thirty minutes good writing and characterization had brought Dean so forcefully back into my good graces that I felt a pang of sympathy when Sam doused him with holy water.


Castiel and Hannah: Here be flying pigs and frogs singing the Friday song in operatic choir voices..., because I hated everything that happened with Castiel in this episode.

It started when Sam, in his last ditch effort to engage Castiel in the plot, asked him to go find Dean. He also told Castiel Dean was a demon, which only drew a "How?" from him. I chalk up Castiel's lack of reaction to this important news to his illness and incoherent thinking. I also won't blame Hannah for letting the guy who was on the verge of passing out pretty much every minute of the day since this all started take the wheel. But when they go off road and into a tacky, irrelevant Disney movie that's when I get pissed.

I want to know what the point of that segment was, considering how much they had to bend logic to get to it. A Good Samaritan, who just happens to own a tow truck, plucks them from the side of the road and instead of taking them to town, she gives them shelter in her own home. She also happens to have the most adorable, Hallmark commercial little girl this side of Lilith, whose only purpose is to be cute with Castiel, prompting the, "Wouldn't you love to have that with your guy?" conversation between Ms. Tow Truck and Hannah not-Montana. Meanwhile I'm wondering what I am supposed to think? Is Hannah smitten with Castiel like a longing-to-be-a-mom human woman ? Is she dreaming of marrying him and having a houseful of fluffy-winged baby angels in the sky?


Does this sound as ridiculous to anyone else as it does to me?

Hannah goes to Metatron and demands he gives Cas' grace back, because apparently Cas not having a grace is the only thing standing in the way of her domestic bliss. Cas shows up and tells them both off for trying to ruin his martyr status. I flash back to seasons 6, 7, 8 and early 9, when Sam was getting on my last nerve with his sacrifice induced ailments, and his heroic suffering for the good of all, or simply because he didn't care if he lived or died. I remembered how much I resented these storylines because they turned my favourite characters into male versions of the Mary Sue, there to prompt others to fret and fuss over them while the audience was expected to both feel sorry for them and applaud.

Even though I liked that Castiel stood up to Metatron, I wished he would go searching for his grace. At least that way he would have had something to do instead of standing around looking tormented while Hannah WantsToBeAMama pined over him. He would not be a part of the main storyline still, but his story would be less boring than this lame exhibition of brokenness and heterosexuality they've been trying to shove down our throats since season 9.


My thoughts on the episode overall: Of the two episodes that aired this season, this was my favorite. It made me look forward to the show again. I have no illusions, considering it has been a trend since season 7 that the second episode gave me high hopes, to be dashed in episode 3.

I wish they keep up this characterization of sarcastic, carefree Demon Dean, and determined, self sufficient Sam, for a while at least. I don't have much hope for Castiel. They seem to be setting him and Hannah up to be the next Sam and Amelia (Heaven help us.) If I, a former Castiel fan, can't stand his new role on the show, God only knows what the Twitter and Livejournal hate-crowd is doing right now. I don't dare check. For now I'll do with his story same as I did with Samelia, pretend it doesn't exist until it either gets better or goes away.

Don't forget to post your opinions in the comment section. I will now duck behind my couch, to avoid any vegetables my fellow Castiel fans might want to throw at me.  You could get them from Dean fans by the way, if any are still left from last week.

Tessa

tessa-marlene.tumblr.com/
twitter.com/tessa_marlene 

77 comments:

  1. You're spot-on about the Cass/Hann storyline, but unlike Sam/Amelia I can't pretend it doesn't exist because we spend like half the episodes with them, and that's so much time that could have been used to further develop Sam's, Dean's, or even Crowley's storyline.
    Right now every Tuesday I'm just as impatient as I'm annoyed because Supernatural is about to start. I know there's no way around it, I'm going to be bored to tears for half the episode.
    Since season 7 they always have the worst ideas for Castiel. I like the character and don't really want him to go away but at that point a Cass spin-off would be the best solution for everybody.

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  2. Um...twitter and livejournal hate-crowd? Everyone is on Tumblr now. Have been for a while. Generally agree with Dean and Sam analysis, especially Dean. As far as Cas goes, I didn't hate that story-line, but it did seem...i dunno, unnecessary. They need to resolve his fading grace thing like yesterday. It's very tiresome. And I don't even know what to think about Hannah yet. I actually kind of like her as a character. But I am severely annoyed that they don't seem to know what kind of relationship they want her to have with Cas. Sometimes its maternal, sometimes sisterly, sometimes love-interest, sometimes friend/comrade-in-arms, and I just want them to make up their minds and clarify what's going on. The indeterminacy is making me very uncomfortable. (for the record, i hope they don't go love-interest. that would be so...predictable/lame/cliche/half-hearted attempt at no-homo)

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  3. I was far too distracted in this episode by the gaping age plot hole. In 2003 Cole supposedly looked 12 or 13, but in 2014 he's played by a 40 year old actor? he should be in his
    mid 20's... But it was still better than the premiere I think.

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  4. They could have easily written him as part of the team if they wanted to, like he was in season 5. It's the insistence to keep him separated from the brothers and do his own thing that killed his presence on the show. Like I said last week, my suspicion is they were trying to kill two birds with one stone: please the Cas fans by keeping him on, satisfy his haters by keeping him away. Instead they pissed off both camps.

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  5. Agree. Cas on screen unfortunately (and I used to like character very much) means major nap and time to check emails and text messages on phone. I know that Js need some time off in order to keep keeping on and not collapse from exhaustion but man, can they come up with something decent for a change? Heaven needs you? Again? Cute sick Cas surrounded by little kids, puppies and rainbows?
    I actually like Hannah and her slow warming up to humanity. I liked Methatron in this episode, he is just menacing little prick you want to destroy like a cockroach, not scary but disgusting.

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  6. twitter and livejournal hate-crowd? Everyone is on Tumblr now.Twitter is where people interact with the cast and showrunners and there's a small, tight group of SPN fans there who's made it their mission to get Misha/Cas off the show by constantly tweeting about it to the people in charge.

    By Livejournal I was referring to SPN-gossip, though I doubt anyone goes there other than the people who were there since the dark ages. Those guys also use twitter sometimes to voice their extreme opinions.

    And I don't even know what to think about Hannah yet. I actually kind of like her as a character. But I am severely annoyed that they don't seem to know what kind of relationship they want her to have with Cas. Sometimes its maternal, sometimes sisterly, sometimes love-interest, sometimes friend/comrade-in-arms, and I just want them to make up their minds and clarify what's going on.

    I have nothing against Hannah except what you just described. In the Hallmark scene she looks like she wants to marry Cas. Metatron however implies she wants to be a soldier/servant to him. Hannah is not a well developed character. They just took her from last season, when she was a mere pawn, and upgraded her to Cas' companion without giving us any sort of backstory. Maybe they clarify this in the next episodes, but they should have left the affectionate stuff until that clarification was done.

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  7. Yes, that was kind of weird. Considering Cole has like 7-8 years old son. So 11 years ago he was 13?, and he had his son like what, 3-4 years later? Good for him I guess.
    Travis is 3? years older then Jensen. Why did they cast 40-yers old actor I have no clue but there should be some reason , right? Who knows.
    I feel Cole is undercover character for another spin-off try. Because Travis tries extra-hard on twitter to earn some fan's love.

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  8. Really? I don't follow him but at least he's trying with the fans! I think that he's a fine actor, but the age thing was just way too jarring for me to get lost in the episode whenever he's on screen. As soon as I see him now I just think "there's that walking plot hole. How did nobody that works on the show pick up on this?!"

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  9. My guess is they're now on autopilot with their generic revenge stories: 1) get a kid, 2) kill the dad 3) kid grows up with a grudge. They don't check the specifics anymore and think no one else does.

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  10. I don't think they-re idiot and can't add of subtract 10. If they wanted Travis why don't make boy a little bit older, at least 16-17? That would make age gap a little bit more tolerable. But then I remember "Bad Boys" with presumably 12 years old highly intelligent Sam looking like 7 playing with toy plane - what can I say?

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  11. I don't know if you guys noticed but in S10 ITunes preview clip (at 5.10 min) there was a short 3 sec scene with deceased Lester? and Sam . They are both shown in the middle of nowhere at the crossroads? with demon trap drawn on the ground. So Lester is not just a random douche . Seems like Lester was used by Sam to capture crossroad demon (Dar ) for interrogation. Sam could have
    even suggested Lester to take a deal.

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  12. That would have made the story even better. He would have played proxy to highlight both Sam's (he'd do anything to get Dean back,) and Dean's (he won't take orders from anyone) core traits.

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  13. I just hope this would be "that horrible thing" Sam did to make him a "monster". Because I personally don't mind him doing that for his brother sake.

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  14. Tessa your insert humor is wonderful. I didn't agree with you except on Dean being absolutely amazing, but I enjoyed your writing. Also so glad to find another anime-lover here ;)


    My main gripe is how easily Dean was overpowered by the injured one-handed Sam! For awhile I thought maybe it was intentional, but seeing Dean lost his blade and how he's in a pretty sticky situation in the sneak peek, I doubt that. Those handcuffs were supposed to stop demons to use their demonic powers, nothing was said about turning a pretty strong fighter to a helpless docile loser! He has the MoC, but he was less than Abaddon!!

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  15. Yeah, they've been pretty unclear in defining Dean's rank as a demon. Some say he's just a generic black eye, some place him higher than Lilith and Alistair. I think the writers aren't sure themselves and write him in an on demand fashion.


    At least they've got his personality down, if they don't change it next episode.

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  16. I think they had to do this since Jared cant do any fighting scenes due to his shoulder injury. To me it looked like DD just gave himself up. He even offered his other hand for handcuffs.

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  17. But why?! He lost everything, his freedom, his blade, his joy. If he wanted to torment Sam, HE could capture Sam not the other way.
    I don't think Jared's injury had anything to do with it, it was stated before that unless Sam was on demon blood, he couldn't beat Dean. I think as Tessa said, they're not sure about DD's powers. It's one of those 'just go with the plot' scenarios that there's no logical explanation for it!

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  18. Yes to all of this. What a drag. Give Misha his own show and let's get on with Supernatural.

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  19. I agree! I think they want to see if Cole takes off as a character, and then they can pitch another spin off. I wouldn't follow Cole to a new show b/c he is a psychopath! I will never be able to get past him intentionally attempting to cripple an innocent person to get info on another! He is a jerk, and I hope he dies!

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  20. Agreed. He works better as a character when he is actually involved in the brothers' plot. When he is in his own plot, he is boring, and it drags everything down though I will say this episode was better than the premiere for me.

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  21. I love Cas but the writing for him has been disappointing since Season 6, imo, and since Season 9 really bad (and I didn't like God!Cas until Leviathans took over for 2.5 seconds and also did not like crazy Cas). I really miss Team Free Will days. Even when his powers were drained there he was still helping out (helping beat Pestilence for one!) and his side storyline (search for God) was mostly off screen. It was great.


    Yeah, again Sam was the best in this episode.


    Dean though I'm still not liking the writing for him. I take back my excitement over fresh material. Give me old Dean back. Better than a not-so-demon demon Dean.

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  22. Sam: I always look forward to your reviews and pretty agree with most of it. I am liking Sam these days, too, and it's been a very, very long time since I have said that. I did feel Dabb dropped Sam's IQ points by about a hundred, because I think Cole did let him escape in order to follow him, and
    because Sam did not notice that huge 2014Dean Jeep following him? Sam's a better hunter than that. Then the idea that a one-winged Sam even thought he could handcuff Dean is pretty laughable. I really do like that Sam is determined and focused, but the best thing about him in this episode was that JP showed the slow realization of just how dangerous and scary Demon Dean is. The last scene in the car was terrific.
    I do question what Sam wants or expects from Dean once he cures him. Does he want to go back to the S1 brothers? Is he going to try to manipulate Dean into being the regiver/babysitter/nursemaid again? I know Sam's motivation is his love for Dean and that he refuses to leave Dean the very thing that Dean has fought all his life, but as far as the relationship goes, I have no idea what Sam wants it to be.

    I also thought that taking down the might Demon Dean by sprinkling two tablespoons of holy water in his face was cheap writing and pretty unbelievable. Even Kevin was more creative with Crowley
    than that, but I guess that was the writer having consideration for JP’s hurt shoulder. I’ll let that one pass.

    Cas and Hannah: Could it be any more apparent that Misha is shoehorned into the show? Boring is too mild of a word. I call his half of the episodes worthless interruptions. How is it that Cas, who
    has watched humanity since the beginning of time, knows nothing about the MoC and Crowley does?

    I am not finding anything enjoyable about Cas’ story and, no, I did not think hooking him up with a little girl and having a snot dream conversation was endearing in the slightest. Nor was Ca sleeping peacefully on the couch as Hannah looked on adoringly.

    I do not mind the actress who is not Tahmah Pinikett at all. It would have been so much better, though, if Cas and Gadreel were doing whatever it is Cas is supposed to be doing. It's not looking for his grace -- he's had plenty of opportunity to use borrowed angel grace (from Daniel, who he killed, for instance) and he just found out that a "enough" of his grace is out there somewhere that would fix him. Cas has accepted death in his decision not to kill (still doing penitence, Cas?), so that only leaves a Cas Amelia story open as a reason for Hannah to even be a recurring.. I
    actually think so many fans have whined about ‘women in the show’ that she was shoehorned in to address that fan crap.
    It could be that his ultimate quest is to open the Gates of Heaven still, since the angels are still wingless and they have to use the express elevator to Heaven -- which also means all the trapped souls are still trapped.

    Dean: I’ve got a lot to say about the story surrounding Dean, and it will be long, so I’ll put that in a separate post. For your review on the character, kudos. I am loving Demon Dean, but I don’t think it’s Dean’s story at all. I think Dean is still the maypole around which all of the other characters are revolving. I think this because three episodes is much too short to explore the character in any depth. I will say that I think JA is doing an incredible job and I hope to Hell that once he is cured, we're not back to caregiver, guilt-ridden, low self-esteem, doormat Dean. I hope there is something more than that planned with the MoC still stuck on him.

    One point of contention I had was The Princess Bride remark. While most fans loved it, I just do not picture Dean Winchester watching The Princess Bride, but I am sure that Dabb has. I thought JA was brilliant in delivering the line, though.

    I do have a question for you, Tessa, and I’m going to put it in a separate post, because it’s long. I hope you can shed some light on it for me.

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  23. i agree so hard with this. I just finished a very long Destiel fanfiction, and was just enthralled by the crazy things they had Cas and the boys do!! Now, they don't have the budget on this show to have 'em fight Cthulhu, but, dagnabbit, you've got an angel who is as old as the universe, a guy who has witnessed evolution, and all you can think up for a storyline is he gets a La Traviata cough while being followed around by a love-sick puppy angel buddy? Seriously, show?

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  24. "Is she dreaming of marrying him and having a houseful of fluffy-winged baby angels in the sky?"

    You should have heard the noise I just make - it was like a combo laugh-snort-chortle. A snortle.

    I'm gonna try to explicate what we've come up with in terms of the Cas-Hannah story. Not that I'm like totes invested in it, just what I think the writers think they're doing. Demon Dean's got lovesick Crowley trying to pull him down into hell/demonhood, so Cas is now trapped in a parallel story, where he's got lovesick Hannah trying to pull him back into Heaven/angelhood. Evidently something Carver learned in screenwriting school (he must have skipped the day when they explained revenge as a trope), because he's been vamping it pretty heavily.

    The reason it doesn't work (for me) is that, first off, Dean-Crowley is Jensen and Mark Sheppard, and frankly, I could listen to those two read a phone book back and forth and stay engaged. The actor who plays Hannah is fine, but she's no Mark Sheppard, and she's just been all over the place as a character (You should stab Dean! No, you should put violence aside and spare Metatron! No, you should stab angels who disagree!! And on and on). Cas claimed she was a great warrior in the last episode when we've seen pretty much nothing but her functioning as an angel bureaucrat.

    So, yeah. Anyway, both Cas and Dean need to decide where they belong, but I don't sense that anyone on the writer's staff has even half an interest in Cas any more. So, you've got the outlines of a parallel story, but instead of filling it in with fun bits like Dean and Crowley get (demon karaoke! sexytimes with triplets! foosball with twins!!) all we get is three bean surprise.

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  25. I really am sorry for saying this, but both episodes bored me to death. Back in the days this situation would've kept me on the edge of my seat, but now... something's missing. Can't even tell what. I love those boys to pieces but it pains me when I think what a magnificent show it was in its first four, maybe five seasons, how promising it started looking again somewhere at the end of season 7 and into seasons 8 and 9 just to have it all smashed by the first two episodes' snoozefest.


    As for Castiel. My favourite Cas was in season 4. Tough-ass, insanely powerful angel soldier with a soft spot for Dean and an inner battle. Season 5 Cas who gave up everything for the boys was great as well. Back then the angels were here when the boys were involved, all the rest happened off screen. Now half of the episodes is just unnecessary and boring angel drama. I get that people love Cas and want him on the show, I want that too, but for crying out loud, he should either be a part of Sam and Dean's storyline or not be there at all. I also agree he's been just badly written since season 6.

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  26. IMO, Carver is all about 'feelings' (which includes love stories and soaps and manufactured melodrama) and has very little interest in or understanding about horror, myths, or working class people. His and all the rest of the writers live in their small Hollywood bubble and just can't seem to get outside of it.

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  27. You may be right, Tessa. However, given the Dean was able to use TK to retrieve the Blade and to stand against Abaddon's powers, and lift her single handedly on the tip of the Blade, his reflexes in Sharp Teeth, and how overpowering the vamp in Annie, I think we are to believe that Dean does superpowers. Also, Cain is the only other creature turned into a demon by possessing the MoC, so the assumption should be that Dean is one of two powerful demons. Crowley is certainly afraid of him.
    It may be that all of those examples are the writers doing on-demand Demon Dean.

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  28. I can't stand Castiel either. He was compelling in Season 6 as someone going down a morally murky road while driven by good intentions. But since then, Castiel has been feeling more and more like an aimless presence in the show. I honestly would have preferred if he had died after he went into the lake early in Season 7. I also am tired of the entire angel storyline. Like Castiel, it had something going back in Season 6 but lost it since then.

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  29. I mostly agree with you Tessa as per usual but wanted to share some opinions and thoughts on a few things.

    First off I am pretty satisfied personally with Demon Dean and Sam's lines so far this season. If they took Demon Dean TOO dark then we would have an entire season of Cured Dean whining that he "did all those horrible things". No Thanks! Also Dean goes even darker next episode from what I can see. Anyways pretty satisfied with those characters. Liking Crowley so far this season but what's going to be his storyline after the Demon Dean thing ends? Is it going to be wheel-spinning like Castiel?

    As for generic hunter guy #553? Well I don't hate him as much most people do. I agree that the "revenge" storyline is writing 101 but I do have a feeling that the hunter will eventually be on their side. The issues between Cole and Dean will be resolved and Cole will be on their side. What they do with his character beyond that point is anyone's guess. Hopefully they find something interesting. way to early for me to completely write him off as just a throwaway character. That being said, the show has numerous times killed off characters that could have been really awesome. (example: Magnus from Men of Letters).

    Castiel and Hannah is a whole bag of NOPES. Carver already stated that Castiel's storyline will once again be separate from the boys (at least the man is honest) and that Hannah was brought back in as a love story. So expect a terrible Castiel/Hannah story throughout the entire season. Carver promised that. It is possible that Castiel's story could become more interesting later on. We know that Castiel's host's daughter makes a return (at the age of 17 and is not a big Castiel fan). That could be interesting or maybe not. To early to tell. Does seem completely stupid that Carver wants to keep Castiel away from the Winchesters year after year when nearly all Supernatural fans want to see Castiel working more with the Winchesters. Why would Carver do the exact opposite of what the fans wants? Not just with Castiel but with other things as well.


    It's time for Castiel and Crowley both to be retired this year. The writers can't find anything to do with their characters like at all so they are just going in complete circles rehashing terrible B-Plot storylines for them. Well at least Castiel so far. To early to say what they will do with Crowley once Dean is back to normal (mostly cured by next episode). I am hoping the Crowley/Castiel pair up next week will be fun. Will Castiel just return as the "Evil King of Hell" moving forward retreading the same stories he had in previous seasons? I really hope not.


    I did like seeing Metatron. His character was good even when the writers didn't know what they wanted to do with him. The actor is fantastic and at least his lines this week were solid.


    Episode 2 was a lot better then Carver's premiere. The premiere was "just there" but this episode gave me some hope again and reminded me that good episodes can still happen. It wasn't perfect but there was enough good scenes in the episode and general plot movements that I enjoyed it quite a bit.


    I don't know where they are heading with the show but I do hope that we will look back at season 10 and actually look more fondly at Cole and the story for Castiel and Hannah. So far it's just way to early to tell for me.

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  30. Sorry to hear you're no longer into the show. I'm the same but I've made peace with the idea that it's had its peak and now it's just slowly gliding toward the end. It's that end that I want to see that makes me still watch.As for Castiel. My favourite Cas was in season 4. Tough-ass, insanely powerful angel soldier with a soft spot for Dean and an inner battle. Season 5 Cas who gave up everything for the boys was great as well.Exactly how I feel, and also season 6 when, in his desperation for Dean's approval and affection, he almost broke the world, and then tried to fix it.I get that people love Cas and want him on the show, I want that too, but for crying out loud, he should either be a part of Sam and Dean's storyline or not be there at all.It's what I've been saying for a while now. Cas fans aren't toddlers who'd cheer and clap as soon as their favorite shows up on screen. We want him to be part of the show's mythology. If that's unacceptable for the people in charge then please take him off so that Misha can go and do something else where his talents are better appreciated. You have this Cas fan's blessing.

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  31. I got to hand it to Carver. It's profoundly amazing that he was able to take a fan favorite character (Castiel) and completely ruin his character and everything that made him great.

    Carver is also a jerk for "forcing" Castiel to be completely separate from Sam and Dean? Why would he do that? He said it would be that way for all of season 10. Why force what no fans want? I am pretty sure everyone or just about everyone wants to see Castiel working with Sam and Dean more.

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  32. What I dislike of all the plots you mentioned is the fact that they are keeping Castiel in a bottle story; Sam calls him for help here, but I guess they don't get together until next week.

    The show gave me a friendship to root for between Dean and Castiel. I liked when Castiel showed up in Dean's fishing dream and they talked. There was an ease to the friendship I admired; how many shows write two characters in a believable friendship? My husband was a biker at an early time in our relationship, the dynamic of "bros" is something I understand.

    BUT NO because they wrote it also as a sort-of romantic friendship (well, WHO KNOWS what an angel romance would be like? Not me.) the writers had to pull back until we have no Dean/Cas interaction and this year no Sam/Cas interaction because Sam is chasing Dean, and if he finds him, well CAS can't be there.

    I liked this episode a LOT but in response to Tessa's review of THIS issue I gotta say I WANT to see Dean and Castiel AND Sam in the same room in the near future. Hannah can go back to heaven and we can go on from there.

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  33. What's the fiction (story name and author)? Best I have read in forever was Grey by Valyria.

    And yeah, it is a highly cinematic cough, isn't it?

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  34. boy, thanks for the timeline reality blast.

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  35. I've heard of that one! I just finished Redemption Road, by Zatnikatel and many others. I was chary about starting it, since it's over 40 chapters, and each chapter can be 10K words or more (a story in itself). But so imaginative and gripping.

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  36. My thought on what makes Sam a monster: Sam had to "pay" something to get Crowley to give up Dean's location. I think he killed blond wife. HE did not give up the Blade as payment (why would he give up the Blade AFTER he had Dean?) but for safekeeping.

    Ksana gave some important info here.

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  37. "I am pretty sure everyone or just about everyone wants to see Castiel working with Sam and Dean more."

    I think most fans would agree with you (I do). But there's a segment of the fandom that hasn't liked Cas from the start, and is quite vocal about this, and badly wants Misha to be fired. They Tweet this stuff literally every day to the cast and crew, and attend nearly every convention, where they catch all the Meet and Greets.

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  38. Bertha Strongham19 October 2014 at 01:44

    Loving Demon Dean. whoot whoot!

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  39. Bertha Strongham19 October 2014 at 01:47

    Agreed. Cas is my favorite character!

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  40. Me too! I absolutely loved the fight scene in this episode.

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  41. I love that author. S/he has a wonderful story which features Missy Bender and Ofc Hudak from the Benders. It is gen-fic however, just to let you know.

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  42. I did feel Dabb dropped Sam's IQ points by about a hundred, because I think Cole did let him escape in order to follow him, and because Sam did not notice that huge 2014Dean Jeep following him?There were a few parts that I too thought they did a disservice to Sam's IQ. The ones you mentioned and him handing the blade to Crowley. But they didn't run against his established personal of this season. He took the obvious escape rout because his priority was getting to Dean, and he gave the blade to Crowley because it was the most inaccessible option in case Dean went to grab it again. This season I'm willing to let stupidity slide as long as it doesn't make the character OOC and serves to tell a better story.
    I also thought that taking down the might Demon Dean by sprinkling two tablespoons of holy water in his face was cheap writing and pretty unbelievable.I'd like to think Dean was enjoying his joust with Cole so much that he got careless. Once it happened though, and he was captured, he probably shrugged and said, "I can get out of this anytime I want but let's see where we're going and what'll come next." He's probably as curious about Sam's ultimate plan as we are. At least that's my head canon right now.
    Could it be any more apparent that Misha is shoehorned into the show?You call it shoehorned, I call it underused. There's two sides to this coin. Now that they've decided to keep Castiel on the show why won't they let him be a part of the Sam and Dean story like Crowley? Is it because people might get the wrong idea about him and Dean? Is that why they have glued Hannah to his side and have him act like a daddy? Or why he didn't even blink when Sam told him the truth about Dean?
    I actually think so many fans have whined about ‘women in the show’ that she was shoehorned in to address that fan crap.And they still fail to write women like three dimensional characters and not these bizarre creatures seeking reproduction and male affection.
    I am loving Demon Dean, but I don’t think it’s Dean’s story at all. I think Dean is still the maypole around which all of the other characters are revolving.I'm still waiting to see where it is going. I wouldn't call what happened with Dean this episode passive. He was the one who broke up with Crowley and who beat the crap out of Cole. I want him to hold his ground with Sam and continue to resist being pulled into the old routine. I know it's wishful thinking because it will need the writers to pull Edlund levels of mastery, but that's another head canon I'm going to entertain.

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  43. Oh, I like genfic! I should check it out. I've liked everything she's written.

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  44. You should have heard the noise I just make - it was like a combo laugh-snort-chortle. A snortle.Awesome. I'm going to add that to my dictionary now.

    Demon Dean's got lovesick Crowley trying to pull him down into hell/demonhood, so Cas is now trapped in a parallel story, where he's got lovesick Hannah trying to pull him back into Heaven/angelhood.This is what I posted last week. I did see the parallel. But as you said, Dean and Crowley are an entirely different soup than Castiel and Hannah. Not only is Mark Sheppard a larger than life person, we've known Crowley since season 5. We know his backstory, what makes him tick, what he has done, and is likely to do again. He's a fully developed character. Hannah isn't even half that. The only thing we know about her, and that just based on her soulful looks at him, is that she likes Cas. That's not enough to make a character, let alone have her play an integral part next to one of the show's regulars.


    The rest you said best. Hannah's motives are unclear and her core personality has been all over the place. It's too bad because the part he asked Cas to stab Dean could have been used as a jumping point for her character: stubborn angel who isn't afraid of extreme methods, paired up with mild mannered Cas. Together they could have helped each other reach a balance. But I guess that's too complicated for this group of writers.

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  45. But there's a segment of the fandom that hasn't liked Cas from the start, and is quite vocal about this, and badly wants Misha to be fired.Now that it's clear he won't be fired, wouldn't it be better for his presence on the show to not suck? I mean I can't imagine the Hate Brigade to actually like this better than Cas being with Sam and Dean. Unless they are so allergic to the Dean and Cas' friendship they'd rather spend half of every episode watching useless melodrama than seeing them interact with each other.

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  46. I honestly would have preferred if he had died after he went into the lake early in Season 7. I also am tired of the entire angel storyline. Like Castiel, it had something going back in Season 6 but lost it since then. It certainly would have helped if that story had come to some sort of resolution. But they just let it die and never let Cas reach his redemption, or his final transformation. Since then he's been written in a way as if none of that character development ever happened and I don't think any of the writers cares much about it.

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  47. If they took Demon Dean TOO dark then we would have an entire season Cured Dean whining that he "did all those horrible things".I didn't want them to make Dean too dark either, just less pathetic and more into action rather than relaxation. As I described in the review, there are ways to make your hero darker without turning them into homicidal maniacs.

    Liking Crowley so far this season but what's going to be his storyline after the Demon Dean thing ends? Is it going to be wheel-spinning like Castiel?Sam gave him the blade so maybe he'll use it toward some evil. Thing is, like Castiel, he doesn't seem to have a purpose this season. With Abaddon dead he's supposedly the King of Hell yet he doesn't seem to want to go back.

    The issues between Cole and Dean will be resolved and Cole will be on their side.Not sure what the point of that would be. If the issue is resolved he'd be just another tagalong with nothing notable about him. It's not like the dude is showing any exceptional personality or anything. If they wanted a third wheel they could have used Castiel and saved us from his boring story.

    So expect a terrible Castiel/Hannah story throughout the entire season. We were supposed to be served the terrible Sam/Amelia storyline for the entire 8th season too. That didn't happen. I'm holding out hope this would again be the case. Someone needs to tell them to stop trying to write love stories into this show because they suck at it.

    Does seem completely stupid that Carver wants to keep Castiel away from the Winchesters year after year when nearly all Supernatural fans want to see Castiel working more with the Winchesters. Why would Carver do the exact opposite of what the fans wants? I honestly have no clue, except perhaps it's a formula he knows best. His last show before Supernatural was an ensemble show, wasn't it?

    Well now that I know this I really wish Misha finds a better contract and quits this show, just to stick it to Carver.

    Episode 2 was a lot better then Carver's premiere. The premiere was "just there" but this episode gave me some hope again and reminded me that good episodes can still happen.As I said, it's been the case for me since season 7. Every second episode of the season gives me hope that we're headed for a great season until they resolve whatever conflict was left from last season's cliffhanger and go back to the old routine of one off episodes. Hope it's not the case this time but if Dean is no longer a demon by episode 4 I don't know what else is left to sweat over.

    I do hope that we will look back at season 10 and actually look more fondly at Cole and the story for Castiel and Hannah. You mentioned the two things I have the least amount of hope for. No matter how I try I can't see anything interesting coming out of either Cole or Cas/Hannah. But hey, the show might surprise me, like it did with demon Dean this episode.

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  48. The show gave me a friendship to root for between Dean and Castiel. I liked when Castiel showed up in Dean's fishing dream and they talked. There was an ease to the friendship I admired; how many shows write two characters in a believable friendship?*sigh* Please don't remind me of that. For the longest time (when Carver was practicing some weird ideas with Sam,) their friendship was the only thing that kept me watching. I can't shake off the suspicion that this was yet another RTD incident (You know, Russel T. Davies, the creator of Torchwood who killed one of his most beloved characters, then sank his entire show just to make a point to the shippers that he was in charge?) I don't know what Carver and the other producers have against the D/C friendship? I resent the term No Homo and I don't think that's it. I think that perhaps, like RTD, they don't want to think they are being controlled by the fans, so maybe that's why they bounced so hard and went completely in the opposite direction. Some writes are like that. They don't like the idea of the audience telling them what to do even if it comes from a place of passion. Unfortunately, since they now have removed one of the major tenets of Castiel's personality (his friendship and devotion to Dean) he is left adrift and his presence on the show has become nearly pointless. I WANT to see Dean and Castiel AND Sam in the same room in the near future. I want that too, even though I'm not that optimistic it would happen as Carver seems to not like it.

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  49. Damn the writers! How dare they put in a show an angel who cares, helps and is worried about Cas well-being! And she is a woman, what an insult! Seriously, if Hannah – the perfect little angel – can learn about human feelings from Cas, that there is finally some hope for the rest of their angelic family. Here I was, thinking that’s the point – spreading the spirit of free will among the angels, stupid me.

    Ermmmm, didn’t you hear what Cas said? “Listen to me, Hannah. You don’t want this, I have seen what— I’ve made deals born of desperation, and they always end in blood and tears—always”, and you want to tell me he is not RIGHT here? Help from Metatron would only bite his ass in the future. He did what he had to. Besides, he is going to search for his grace, you can read it in some spoilers.

    Seriously, I can understand you people are bitter and upset but come one, a little more objectivity. This is just the beginning of the season and introduction to Cas story.

    Heh, hate-crowd. Here we are (a supposed) awesome, understanding, loving and accepting SPN family. A sad lol.

    I won’t throw a vegetable at you, I’m just…. disappointed.
    I give you a hug and a cookie. You sound like you need it.

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  50. Again I am wishing for another Angel to die...GET RID OF HANNAH..please.

    I agree with all your comments this week, was a good Dean & Sam ep.

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  51. Well, 16-year-olds having kids isn't that far fetched. Or even the kid isn't biologically his, we know nothing about his domestic life on the show.


    My guess they liked really liked the actor, and said 'screw it.' I mean JDM was in his early 30s playing a guy who should be in his mid to late 50s. It happens.

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  52. The "Bad Boys" thing was they cast younger, Dean was supposed to be 14, which would have made Sam around 9. But they decided to change Dean's age to 16 in post.

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  53. Boy, I guess I am not the only one who bailed on Torchwood when Ianto was killed in Children of Earth? That death horrified me, I watched the next episode of that mini-series hoping there was a way to bring Ianto back; they didn't. I bailed.

    I hadn't thought about them removing the tenet of Castiel's personality, that he was devoted to Dean. AND the horseshit relationships they have him involved in (reaper bounty hunter lady, his boss at Gas 'n Sip, now Hannah -- none of them are in the least bit interesting) -- maybe getting him involved in Sheriff Hanscum (I really liked her character, aside from the fact that I thought she and Dean were a good fit just because they liked the PLEASURE of eating BUT Dean would facilitate her going off her diet) or even the werewolf chick coming up,. IF THEY HAVE TO MAKE CASTIEL CHASE TAIL.

    Sam himself hasn't gotten any huggin' lovin' since AMELIA two seasons ago. And Dean, well there was chastity counselor lady and roadhouse barmaid...
    Sometimes it's like the writers are little kids going, girls are gross, they got COOTIES. Then they write in a girl, BECAUSE, but they hold their hands under their armpits and say, SEE we wrote in a GIRL.

    And NOW they have written Crowley as having romantic interest in Dean. The only way I see Crowley surviving the next few episodes is if he helps turn over Dean to Castiel and Sam because he doesn't want Dean to suffer being a demon any more. Or something like that. And then Sam won't/can't kill him. BAH. So they write ANOTHER quasi-gay relationship and let THAT ONE go too.

    But back to Torchwood. I thought Ianto and Jack were a relationship to root for; if RTD wrote it, why dump it? Because it was POPULAR? THAT'S writing malfeasance, don't you think? Sorry, I got up this morning, I have sciatica which is really painful, I saw your comment and saw RED. I apologize if I triggered anything in YOUR viewing pleasure.

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  54. There's also that other segment of fandom that sees any scenes with Dean and Cas as queerbaiting, and take to Tumblr and Twitter to harass the writers and call them homophobes.

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  55. There's a fine line between passion and accuse people of homophobia for not making a ship canon. Is it petty, probably. I'm a fan of Cas, but this is like a case of you get what you deserve.

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  56. thetrenchcoatofcastiel19 October 2014 at 17:28

    The thing with Cas and Hannah is that they are MIRRORING Dean and Crowley. Both Dean and Cas are beings who aren't sure if they want to be supernatural or human, who have extreme supernatural beings trying to force them to one side. In the end, they resign themselves to the fate they think they deserve - Cas being an emotionless angel, since he doesn't want to deal with the heartbreak and pain of being human, and Dean being a crazy demon, since he, too, doesn't want to deal with the heartbreak and pain of being human. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but have the same stories; I think we can safely say they will meet in the middle. Both Hannah and Crowley wish to be romantically attached to their person (and come on, if you can't see it with Crowley, you're in denial. It's weird, but it IS there). Cas and Dean are mirrored again because neither of them are romantically interested in their designated supernatural being. What's also interesting is that Hannah is filling the role of season 4 Cas - an angelic being who doesn't quite understand humanity, pop culture references, etc., and follows the orders of heaven, whose mind has not yet been opened to the concept of free will. This then allows us to put Cas in the role of season 4 Dean, the one who teaches the angelic being about humanity and free will. I mean, if you don't like Cas at all, then you can hate this storyline and these parallels all you want, but if you ARE a Cas fan, I'm not sure how you're bored by this? Cas and Dean are mirroring each other SO CLOSELY. Cas is being seen on the screen without Sam and Dean, but still with his own narrative arc that weaves itself thematically into the brothers' storyline, which gives him extreme importance as a character. It's awesome, in my opinion, but hey, to each their own. *shrugs*

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  57. Except he never says he was a SEAL, he said he did special ops. And considering he's a marine, I would think he trained in MARSOC, which to my knowledge doesn't require X amount of years to enroll into, only passing a recruiters screening process for entry. But I could be wrong.


    So if he enrolled at 18, and needs 5 years on, 1 year reserve. Lets say he's 24, that means he should have had a discharage by this point.

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  58. So my guess was right, the Dean fans did run out of vegetable projectiles last week. A cookie is fine too. *takes the cookie and munches on it.*

    Now onto the subject at hand.

    How dare they put in a show an angel who cares, helps and is worried about Cas well-being! And she is a woman, what an insult! Hannah is not a woman. She's an angel who, according to the show's own mythology, occupy the bodies of willing humans,male or female. If they had gender divisions then which side would Raphael fall, who had been in the body of both a man and a woman? Or Castiel for that matter?

    if Hannah – the perfect little angel – can learn about human feelings from Cas, that there is finally some hope for the rest of their angelic family. Here I was, thinking that’s the point – spreading the spirit of free will among the angels, stupid me.You're not stupid. You are however creating your own canon and applying it to the show. Where in these episodes did Castiel teach Hannah anything she didn't already know or feel. He didn't oppose her when she went wrath of God on the Free Will angels last episode. And he didn't do anything other than talk about snot with a little girl for her to have maternal feeling. Those feelings can't be learned. They are natural reactions connected to female hormones. So is Hannah's host having those reactions? Or did Hannah have human feelings all along and watching Castiel each cheerios with Goldielocks bring them out of her?

    didn’t you hear what Cas said? “Listen to me, Hannah. You don’t want this, I have seen what— I’ve made deals born of desperation, and they always end in blood and tears—always”, and you want to tell me he is not RIGHT here?I'm not telling you anything. I also never talk about right or wrong in my reviews, just character representation and storytelling skills. A preachy line like that is bad writing, bad characterization and awful storytelling. It also turns Cas into a martyr which I always hated in seasons 6-8 when they did it with Sam. Back then people called me a Sam hater, last week they called me a Dean hater. Now I've ticked off all the boxes. :)

    This is just the beginning of the season and introduction to Cas story.And it sucks already. I am a TV viewer. I should be interested now or I'll flip the channel to Agents of the SHIELD.

    Heh, hate-crowd. Here we are (a supposed) awesome, understanding, loving and accepting SPN family. A sad lol.We're neither a crowd, nor a family, just individuals with individual opinions watching a TV show. The sooner we understand this, the lesser tension would be among us.


    You seem to be a fierce Castiel fan so high five to you. I can't tell you how to feel but in my opinion, any hotblooded Castiel fan should be horrified of this development and what they've done to his character. I know I am.

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  59. The thing with Cas and Hannah is that they are MIRRORING Dean and Crowley.I said that in last week's review, that I see a parallel between Hannah/Cas and Crowley/Dean. Difference is, Crowley is a well rounded, well known character with defined personality traits and motivations. Hannah is not. The only thing we barely know about her is her crush on Castiel.

    Both Hannah and Crowley wish to be romantically attached to their person (and come on, if you can't see it with Crowley, you're in denial. It's weird, but it IS there).Really? REALLY? So when I was seeing it with Dean and Castiel I was a delusionaly Destiel shipper, even though what I meant was Cas loving Dean in a spiritual, soul worshiping kind of way. The No Homo hammer came down - from Jensen no less - and taught us to quit those fantasies because they were both straighter than guitar strings. Now Crowley, who's only spent an episode an half drinking Pina Coladas with Dean is suddenly, obviously, romantically attached to him?

    Excuse me while I break some dishes on my forehead over here.

    What's also interesting is that Hannah is filling the role of season 4 CasHannah isn't even in the same stratosphere as season 4 Cas. Season 4 Cas was a fascinating, complicated and conflicted character who oozed intrigue in every scene he occupied. From his stiff fidgety posture which hinted at a too powerful being, forcefully contained in a too small shell, to his confused, tilted looks, which spoke a thousand lines about his inner battles without a need for dialogue. Season 4 Castiel was a tour de force character the likes of which we might never see on the show again.

    Cas is being seen on the screen without Sam and Dean, but still with his own narrative arc that weaves itself thematically into the brothers' storyline, which gives him extreme importance as a character.Sorry but I fail to see that importance when I'm hardly able to stay awake long enough to watch the story. It's alright to add parallel stories and b-plots to a show. But they MUST be entertaining or else people will fast forward through them, no matter how important to the plot, or morally commendable they are.

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  60. I'm pretty sure that Castiel is separated from the brothers so Jared and Jensen can have more time off. Their workloads have been discussed before and now that they have families, I wouldn't be surprised if them going on with the show was conditional on a schedule that allowed them to spend more time at home (and conventions, looks like). I really don't think that it's because TPTB's don't like Destiel, even if the more ardent fans can be a handful.

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  61. I wish people would stop seeing romance in everything with this show. The only type of love it is interested in is the love between brothers, and even then it's an unstated love.

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  62. But why can't they rotate the appearances: one episode Sam and Dean together, then Dean and Cas, then Cas and Sam? Do Jensen and Jared have to take time off together? They pretty much spent the last two episodes shooting separate scenes. Why didn't they put Misha with Jared and give Jensen time off? Or if that's not possible, make Cas' story part of the Sam and Dean's conflict, have him work it from a different angle, and stay in touch with the brothers by phone?

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  63. "It's too bad because the part he asked Cas to stab Dean could have been
    used as a jumping point for her character: stubborn angel who isn't
    afraid of extreme methods, paired up with mild mannered Cas."

    Yeah, I would have loved it if they'd made Hannah more ... well, I guess you could say "consistently stabbity." Cas could even hold her back with Dean's line, "questions first, stab later." And I'm still not over how she suddenly flounced off to join Metatron, and then snapped back an episode or two later. Now, granted, S4 Cas was a veritable face-heel revolving door in term of switching sides, but they had to drag him back to heaven and torture him to pry him loose from his loyalty to Dean, and that didn't even last very long.

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  64. So you're saying because *some* people called them homophobes (something people constantly do on the Internet) they modified the show and took the Dean and Cas friendship out of it? That's not petty. That's unprofessional and idiotic. TV shows are a business. They are also a collective cultural product and live off of ratings and popularity. Do something silly like that and watch the whole ship sink, like Torchwood.


    Lucky for Carver those of us who rolled our eyes at his butthurt antics are still watching to see how it all ends. A lesser iconic show might have not survived his circus act.

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  65. Ok, I get what you mean with the angel-gender (btw, you think Raphael needed a psychiatrist? It would be cute), but what I meant – she is played by actress (obviously) and I have a strange impression, that if "she" would be a "he" some people wouldn’t be so pissed off now. Because, ta-dah!, a lot of her haters think she is going to be an obstacle for Destiel (in other hand fans of Dean and Cas bro top would be pissed off so whatever, there is no golden mean here). I don’t care if she is going to be a lover, sister, friend or whatever, I think he needs someone from his angelic family - I got it and I’m fully satisfied.

    Crap, funny story – I just knew someone is going to point the “learning human feeling” part when I posted it (bad wordage alert! But hey! My English skills suck after all! Yay!). I can agree she already knows about feelings and free will, but she, like other angels, doesn’t get it, doesn’t understand the meaning. Cas didn’t get that in the beginning too. He didn’t oppose Hannah because it wouldn’t change her mind? She needs experience not talking, that’s why is best for her to tags along with Castiel (…she is so going to die….). That’s why the last two episodes, when they were on the journey (nice symbolism, btw) I understand as a road for finding it. Of course it’s my speculation but for now it makes sense (for me). If I’m wrong I’ll give you another cookie.

    Well, for me he has learnt his lessons and made some conclusions (not like some other characters…), plus for Cas. Usually, I hate martyrs too but hmmm, he wants to die on his own terms, kind a thing I can admire. When he was a human he dealt with it alone. He is not that bad. But I didn’t call you a Cas hater yet, so you have to try harder next time :P

    Suck for you, don’t suck for me, opinions, opinions. And I’m a fan and I’m going to drown with this show (I’ve spent too many years with it… Plus I’m not interested in Shield so I guess it’s easier for me ;)

    We are individuals in a crowd called spn fandom and we should learn that some things we could say with less harsh words.

    A fierce?… Thanks, I guess? I like the guy and I was horrified when they made him a human and let him has his… sexual adventures. It “damaged” (an euphemism here) him like nothing else (he should has stayed asexual, end of story) so now NOTHING can horrified me. It can be only better. IMO.
    Holy cow, I talk too much (high five, Metatron!).

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  66. I agree with most of this review, except parts to do with Cas. I did find it a stretch for some kind woman with a tow truck to let them stay in her house with her and her daughter. It's just not realistic. That said, I thought the parts between the kid were cute, and a sign of how far Cas has come. And while I'm not a fan, Hannah has been more interesting to me this season then last. Except the part of forcing angels to return to heaven in the first episode annoyed me and went completely contrary to all that Cas has lived for years. Freedom of choic

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  67. The REASON Hannah is there is because she is being set up to be the LEADER OF HEAVEN...If she leads heaven, than that means Cas won't have to, which is good, since we know he isn't any good at it and doesn't want to do it anyway.But that's Hannah's story, not Castiel's story. I'm not a Hannah fan. I'm a Castiel fan and I refuse to be force fed a poorly developed character's story just because Castiel is stuck in it.

    what I was trying to imply by saying that the Dean/Crowley and Cas/Hannah are paralleling each other is that Dean/Cas is being set up to be, at the very least, ambiguous, and at the very most, explicit. I'm sorry, I don't believe that at all. I get upset when Cas fans, and Dean/Cas fans, try to explain away Carver's obvious marginalization of the relationship instead of getting angry at his terrible treatment of Cas.


    This might be why we're called delusional. It's because the show runner has pushed the Dean/Cas story into a sewage drain and some of us still see the sun shining out of it. No, just no. They ruined it in the course of the last three years and I'm tired of making excuses for them. Cas was the best when he was with Dean. He's no longer with Dean and that's because Carver wants it that way and no amount of metaphor hunting and using other characters as proxies would change that.


    BTW the Dean/Crowley relationship was supposed to be a mirror for the Dean/Sam relationship (the bitch/jerk exchange.) Now that the real deal is back they discarded Crowley and it's Dean/Sam again. Dean/Cas was never even on their radar, blind as they are.

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  68. thetrenchcoatofcastiel20 October 2014 at 01:55

    Listen, I don't want to fill up the comments with a pointless argument, so I'll just say I greatly urge you to read some meta on tumblr by users crossroadscastiel, neven-ebrez, obsessionisaperfume, deathbycoldopen, and anybody else they link to. They go extremely in-depth and are very critical in their reviews, and they all specialize in analysis of creative works, so they know what they're talking about. You don't have to if you don't want to, I'm just saying to give them a shot. But you do make some really great points, so keep doing what you're doing - I've been reading your reviews every week since you first started posting them, and will continue to do so :)

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  69. Boy, I guess I am not the only one who bailed on Torchwood when Ianto was killed in Children of Earth? That death horrified me, I watched the next episode of that mini-series hoping there was a way to bring Ianto back; they didn't. I bailed.You bailed, some people pushed back. They were fed up with the deaths. It was a monumentally stupid move after killing Tosh and Owen the season before that. That's when RTD got all mad and self righteous with them and told the fans if they couldn't handle a little death in their TV shows they should go watch Supernatural instead!

    Sometimes it's like the writers are little kids going, girls are gross, they got COOTIES. Then they write in a girl, BECAUSE, but they hold their hands under their armpits and say, SEE we wrote in a GIRL.Lol, perfect analogy.

    And NOW they have written Crowley as having romantic interest in Dean.To me it looks like they're writing him like he's jealous of the Sam and Dean relationship and wants to imitate it. Why would he be that way? I don't know.

    But back to Torchwood. I thought Ianto and Jack were a relationship to root for; if RTD wrote it, why dump it?I always had a suspicion that RTD's ultimate romantic pairing for that show was Jack and Gwen. Yet to take the back country road and make it difficult, he paired Jack with Ianto and married Gwen to Rees. Then, when people cheered for Jack and Ianto and talked as if that'd be the endgame for Jack he got pissed and killed him in the name of great storytelling. At least that's the story I made based on my observation of his comments and where he went in Miracle Day. A shame really because that show had so much potential.

    I got up this morning, I have sciatica which is really painful, I saw your comment and saw RED. I apologize if I triggered anything in YOUR viewing pleasure.Sorry to have upset you. Torchwood still is and will forever be a sore wound for me. I loved the show and when I found out it was renewed I happy danced for months. Then I watched series 4 and it was like watching my favorite house get slowly demolished.

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  70. Oh, you're right. He said Special Ops. I don't think it is just a Marine Recruiter that does the screening, but I am not sure. Whatever. I guess we can assume that he is an amazing GI Joe....kid, wife and 18, stellar career in five years, and kept track of the super secret Winchesters all that time, when even Hendrickson couldn't find them. I guess the Winchesters aren't so far off the radar as they think they are.

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  71. Last thing first: you did not upset me. Torchwood upset me. Also I really LIKED Rees and Ianto themselves as CHARACTERS. RTD wrote two good CHARACTERS here and he blew up his show. I did realize, from the beginning, that Jack and Gwen were endgame, BUT she was just an oatmeal character to me, so bland. In a way it was very similar to Amy and Rory from Doctor Who. I LOVED Rory and while I liked Amy from the beginning (so many of the Doctor's companions are written to be Miss Marvelous, so pretty so wise so brave, blah blah blah) I grew to LOVE Amy because of her love for Rory. Usually the companion is conflicted or whatever where the Doctor is concerned, and Amy wasn't.

    Ianto's last speech to Jack, how he'd go on and in the end forget about Ianto just tore me up. Jack I think loved Ianto, but he had loved so many people that in the end Ianto wasn't as special to Jack as I found him.
    And Rees was supposed to be a big fat galoot, totally unworthy of Gwen, well screw THAT.

    And so the show DIED in that bit of writerly stupidity.

    I am very much enjoying these early episodes of Supernatural. I don't know what they have planned, and am enjoying the fallout from Dean's death.

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  72. I think I've got it figured out now, so won't post. The question may come up again next episode, though, and I'll bring it up then.
    I feel the same way with Dean. I don't think Demon Dean is being passive at all, and I hope the real Dean doesn't go back to his old ways. I have a feeling that Carver is rebooting Dean's character and, if so, that will be something I like very much.

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  73. Isn't Cole supposed to be in his early 20's??? He said that Dean killed his father in 2003, that is 11 years... he says that he is 13 when it occurs. That would make him at least 24..... so why does the guy look like he is in his 40's????

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  74. I don't think h's necessarily alone in tracking the Winchesters, he did get that fax with "yup" written next to Dean, so he's feelers out there for him. Gotta assume the number of times Dean has been killed and resurrected according to police reports, he's learned not trust them.

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  75. Because the actor is 38.

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  76. "I mean, if you don't like Cas at all, then you can hate this storyline
    and these parallels all you want, but if you ARE a Cas fan, I'm not sure
    how you're bored by this? Cas and Dean are mirroring each other SO
    CLOSELY. Cas is being seen on the screen without Sam and Dean, but still
    with his own narrative arc that weaves itself thematically into the
    brothers' storyline, which gives him extreme importance as a character."




    It is boring because 1) Unlike season 4, there is no larger or deeper significance than the character going through an existential crisis and 2) We've been there before many times.



    The season 4 storyline was set against the backdrop of apocalypse - where learning the lessons about humanity and free-will (or failing to learn them) had potentially world-ending consequences. We don't have the same enormous stakes here - the angels are back in heaven and it seems they intend to stay there. There is not big-bad in charge over them and Metatron is in jail. Whether or not Hannah understands the value of humanity and free-will, there don't seem to be the same huge consequences looming over this situation. The only ones really being affected are the few unknown hidden angels who want to stay on earth.



    Secondly, we've seen Castiel go back and forth on the whole free-will issue for 5 seasons now. Repeating the same story with another character in his stead is boring and unimportant - no matter what thematic parallels you can draw from it.

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