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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Meta Fiction?

16 Apr 2014

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169 comments:

  1. Freda16 April 2014 at 02:59

    Gabriel!!! When Casa Erotica first appeared, I thought why is Metatron playing porn? Gabriel made so much more sense! He seemed really different in comparison to previous episodes - maybe because Metatron was writing the story?

    "I really hate continuity errors." Best line. Why can't the writers learn from this sentiment?

    I liked how Metatron finally gave Castiel pop culture knowledge- hopefully this continues in later episodes. Sam and Dean's expression to Cas getting the Deathstar reference was humorous.

    Gosh, Dean can be scary. The Mark of Cain is most certainly making him more ruthless. Giving Dean a mytharc is working out well. I hope that the speech Gadreel gave Dean doesn't get even more in the way of the brothers. They don't need more angst. Seriously, I just want them to make-up by now.

    Metatron is an entity of his word? That is why all the angels are on Earth? In the ending scene, he seemed way off his rocker. I think he is turning out to be a good villian.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Judy Smith16 April 2014 at 03:02

    All villains see themselves as the hero.
    Looking forward to the next 5 episodes.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Lise16 April 2014 at 03:04

    I'm freaking out here, freaking out, freaking out

    http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sheldon-Cooper-Freaking-Out-Reaction-Gif-On-Big-Bang-Theory.gif

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  4. Kaye23716 April 2014 at 03:06

    Anyone else noticed that Metatron wrote ''Cass'' at the end?

    ReplyDelete
  5. untainted16 April 2014 at 03:08

    A little too much sitting around and talking - in the car, sitting in the chairs, standing around... You get my point. Also, writers should always be careful throwing words like "hero" around - this should be up to the audience to judge, we should not be explicitly told how to interpret the characters. Overall a decent episode, some nice Cas/Dean moments, which has been seriously lacking this season.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Khrys16 April 2014 at 03:13

    I knew something right with Gabriel the moment he said he was in heaven since luci killed him. That would mean he was there for the civil war and all that crap with Raphael and Cas killing all those angels. I don't think he would turn a blind eye to that.

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  7. mac16 April 2014 at 03:15

    loved it !


    Not only did it give me hope for Gabe returning once more (his wink) but also did it show how mytharc heavy episodes can be awesome ! This season most angel centric episodes felt rather weak but this one ? Full of wit, humor and some pretty great acting !


    Can't wait but...but...don't you dare kill off my Cas !


    btw. Metatron, buddy...it's not Cass...

    ReplyDelete
  8. rehabber16 April 2014 at 03:16

    On first watching I voted awesome, will watch tomorrow with CC on to make sure I did not miss anything.
    Very happy to see Gabriel, more would be great.
    Glad Cas is finally getting up to date on movies, that was very funny..Deathstar. ;)

    DEAN I do love him when he ruthless, Feral Dean was one of my favorites, this one is close.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Ksana16 April 2014 at 03:26

    I wish someone who voted "awful" would explain why. Just curious.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Gustavo16 April 2014 at 03:36

    Spam, or idjits u.u

    ReplyDelete
  11. CP16 April 2014 at 03:38

    Cass is how the writers spell it. I prefer Cas myself.

    ReplyDelete
  12. lala216 April 2014 at 03:45

    I thought it was a really bad episode. I didn't care for any of it.



    Just my opinion though. If you loved it, that's great! I did not.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Gustavo16 April 2014 at 03:50

    That's sad :/

    ReplyDelete
  14. Shannon16 April 2014 at 03:51

    Pretty good episode for a return. I enjoyed a lot of the one liners. "i'm just a soldier." "bitch please" Cas looking at porn, "That's inappropriate." LOL It was great to see Gabriel aka The Trickster again. Aw man i never get tired of him, And he looked GOOD! Really good. i hated seeing him on those dumb commercials. i'm glad he came home. (back to the series). I think the best thing i liked about this episode is that Metatron juiced Castiel's brain with every book and movie reference! Finally he gets it! LOL That's the most exciting thing for me. I feel that will be a lot of fun. Next week looks like a total filler. But w/e.

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  15. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 03:56

    They had Metatron (IMO Carver) throwing Chuck's books (old Canon) into the trash. I think it was a pretty accurate symbolism of what's happening on the show especially since Carver took over.

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  16. lala216 April 2014 at 04:02

    Good point. I didn't catch that but that is certainly what's happening. I wish I could say I liked Carver's vision of the show, but I don't. I much preferred Kripke's take on the show, the characters, and most esp. the relationship btw the brothers.



    The stuff Gadreel spilled is clearly how Carver's Sam views Dean, and I have major problems w/that but . . . it is what it is. The show simply isn't what it used to be for me, but I'm happy others are enjoying it. I wish I could.

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  17. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 04:07

    I'll second your post, though I disagree the bit about what Gadreel told Dean about Sam. I think Gadreel was trying to make Dean angry and he knows the all the right buttons to push. I don't trust Carver's take on Sam either, believe me, and I do think he committed character's murder regarding to Sam (currently doing that further to Dean) but I really think Gadreel was lying.

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  18. MythAl16 April 2014 at 04:07

    I thought same. It was a big symbolism. It was an episode with poor pacing. Even Gabriel didn't bring much. At least I didn't have hope that Sam and Gadreel would share some nice scene. I knew they would focus on the Mark and show Dean being a bad boy and punching Gadreel. Nevermind the angel was inside Sam for the first half of the season. And now five episodes left and 2 of them fillers. How can they expect to explore Gadreel, Castiel, Abaddon, Crowley, Dean, Sam (I have my doubts on this one), Metraton and Cain in 3 episodes?

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  19. lala216 April 2014 at 04:07

    I'm glad you enjoyed the episode. I wanted to enjoy it, but I couldn't possibly care less about the angels, Metatron, Gadreel, the angel civil war . . . none of that interests me in the slightest. It never has actually.



    The MoC story could be interesting but nothing's really happening w/it. Dean broods, and that's it. There's no forward movement w/that story, so the episode failed on all levels for me.

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  20. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 04:10

    Definitely. Carver sucks at pacing. He just isn't a good showrunner in my opinion, be it as a storyteller or respecting characters, canon and plot.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Kaye23716 April 2014 at 04:10

    I don't mind any of them, I'm actually liking ''Cass''. Just not getting all the drama over one letter.

    ReplyDelete
  22. lala216 April 2014 at 04:14

    I hope so but, like you, I don't trust Carver at all. As you said, he assassinated and trashed Sam for no reason in the beginning of last year and w/those crappy speeches this year so I no longer feel like I know "Sam Winchester." Maybe the stuff Gadreel said is supposed to be how Sam feels? Who knows? I feel like they've already beaten us over the head w/this idea that Dean can't be alone even though that is not remotely true so I thought tonight's episode could have been expanding on that whole idea. I just don't know.



    Carver has messed w/the Sam and the Sam/Dean relationship far too much for my taste.

    ReplyDelete
  23. lala216 April 2014 at 04:30

    The way this MoC story is playing out is similar to Sam's "hellucination" story in S7. And as you said, rubbing his palm was NOT telling a story. They could have down so much w/Sam's hallucinations in S7, and they did NOTHING w/it. The same is happening w/Dean's MoC story. I can't completely write it off until the end of the season, but so far, it's not looking too good, IMO.

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  24. lala216 April 2014 at 04:31

    Hope is good! It's good that you still have it. I'm completely cynical about this show at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 04:33

    LOL, sadly I came to the conclusion that, especially after Carver took over, hope is really, really BAD. It's just a set up to disappointment.

    ReplyDelete
  26. MythAl16 April 2014 at 04:35

    I agree.

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  27. MythAl16 April 2014 at 04:37

    You know what I think it's going to happen? When Dean finds out what the MoC is going to do with him (a bad, bad, really bad thing - it needs to have some payoff right?) he is going to be like: I don't care, the end justifies the means, nobody loves me anyway.

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  28. lala216 April 2014 at 04:38

    You stated much of what I feel!! This episode was horrendously boring. I was writing somewhere else that the episode perked up a bit for me when the Trickster appeared, but that didn't last long. Haha! Did anyone else find the writers were a bit heavy-handed w/the cultural references in Gabriel's speeches? He was dropping one in almost every sentence. It felt forced and weird.



    Your take on the MOC story is similar to mine. Nothing is happening w/this story. Dean broods. Dean rubs his arm. Sam stares. Sam asks Dean if he's okay. Dean says he's fine, and it repeats. I can't speak for anyone else, but this MOC story is the ONLY interesting story they have going on right now, and they are squandering the potential by doing nothing w/it. Do they plan to wrap it up in 2 episodes? Is Dean brooding and rubbing his arm supposed to be a story?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 04:39

    Me too. Though I think he's already in this mind set.

    ReplyDelete
  30. lala216 April 2014 at 04:40

    I could see that happen. Maybe the plan is to carry the MOC story over into next year. It's moving so slow that I can only assume that's the plan.

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  31. lala216 April 2014 at 04:41

    Oh . . . you're probably right :-(

    ReplyDelete
  32. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 04:42

    This reply of mine will be very unpopular, but since I'm at the mood of being unpopular tonight...

    God, I hope not! Can't wait for this to end. I miss my Dean. I always loved him the way he was, never wanted him to change. I want him back. :(

    ReplyDelete
  33. MythAl16 April 2014 at 04:49

    Something that would make Jensen sad since he said in one of his last interviews that he is ready to go back to the old Dean.

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  34. Donna C16 April 2014 at 04:53

    That's like me saying I wish someone who voted "Awesome" would explain why. Because, IMHO, not Awesome. Awful, not Awesome.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Donna C16 April 2014 at 04:53

    * How can they expect to explore Gadreel, Castiel, Abaddon, Crowley,
    Dean, Sam (I have my doubts on this one), Metraton and Cain in 3
    episodes?*


    They don't.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Donna C16 April 2014 at 04:55

    Tell me ... are you psychic? lol. Cause if that ain't what happens, I'll die of shock.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Donna C16 April 2014 at 04:56

    No, the episode was sad. And not in the "tugging at my heartstrings" sort of way. But that's my opinion.

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  38. Donna C16 April 2014 at 04:57

    Thanks, I've never been called "Spam" before.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Donna C16 April 2014 at 04:58

    I think it's because if you remove the "c" it becomes "ASS".

    ReplyDelete
  40. RScorpio16 April 2014 at 05:14

    73% in poll thought episode and angels were great or awesome despite a few spamming hate in comments--LOL!

    ReplyDelete
  41. Ginger16 April 2014 at 05:14

    While watching this episode, I had the feeling Thompson (speaking for all the writers) were telling the long term fans to shut up and get over it; that this bunch of Johnny-come-lately writers are telling the story they want to tell and that the fans should just get over their complaints about story, canon, continuity, and pacing. I felt the whole thing was a "writer insert" meant to speak to the fans and their complaints.
    Either that, or its sad that Thompson thinks he is a Ben Edlund. After a three-week hiatus, we learned nothing, the story did not advance, and the J2s could have taken the week off and nothing they did would have been missed. Pathetic and very disappointing.

    ReplyDelete
  42. lala216 April 2014 at 05:15

    Yes, I heard he was having a rough time w/the material. I wouldn't be surprised if the story wrapped up by the end of the season either. Carver, IMO, doesn't know how to tell a story so that wouldn't shock me at all.

    ReplyDelete
  43. lala216 April 2014 at 05:17

    I don't think that is unpopular :-)

    I do think if the story were being told well, you might be more interested in the "ride," but Carver is not telling this story very well so I appreciate your desire to get Dean back to his old self.

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  44. Ginger16 April 2014 at 05:17

    Well, Sam did nothing at all and Dean brooded. The episode was worthless.

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  45. MythAl16 April 2014 at 05:20

    isn't that the truth?

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  46. kayell16 April 2014 at 05:21

    The channel blacked out right after Gabriel/Trickster showed up. Second time in a month :(

    ReplyDelete
  47. lala216 April 2014 at 05:22

    Great adjective. Worthless. If this episode had never aired, what would we have lost in terms of knowledge re: the show and overall plot? Absolutely nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:29

    The books were partially named after Carver, so I don't really see it at him throwing someone else's work away.


    If we're being accurate, then Kripke threw those books in the trash in season 4 and never looked back.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:30

    The Sam hallucination story was about something happening to Sam. It wasn't really about Sam. The Mark of Cain story is about Dean's emotions and his baggage, stuff that was set up quite a while before he got the Mark.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:31

    He still seems like the same Dean to me. Dean's always had a very dark edge.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:32

    Jensen's also said he was tired of having to play the same stuff over and over. The darker story is likely draining but also a challenge.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:32

    There's a real bloodthirstiness to Dean that has increased over the season. Killing people, nearly killing, etc. and being less and less able to stop himself.

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  53. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:34

    Did anyone else find the writers were a bit heavy-handed w/the cultural references in Gabriel's speeches? He was dropping one in almost every sentence. It felt forced and weird.

    That was the point. It wasn't what he would really say. It was a parody.

    Is Dean brooding and rubbing his arm supposed to be a story?



    That's not the whole story. He's been shown doing far more than that (even in this episode). It's changing everything about him.

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  54. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:35

    I'm not a huge fan of Robbie Thompson but he's always polite to fans on Twitter and from what fans at conventions have said, he's also polite to them. Some of the people who work on this show treat fans like garbage. He doesn't seem to be one of them.

    ReplyDelete
  55. SPN Fickle16 April 2014 at 05:37

    Mine, I am in Baltimore on the east coast of US, was totally pixelated and unwatchable for the first 10 minutes or so. When it blacked out, I thought they were trying to fix it, but it came back still pixelated with NO sound! Except for seeing a but of Gabriel's entrance, I didn't see much... Grrrrrr.

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  56. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:37

    The MOC arc is becoming this long, depressing, boring story in which Dean simply stares darkly at everything and everyone. And this is coming from a crazy-eyed Dean-girl.


    The story is about everything Dean has felt for most of his life. He's been building up to this for a long time.

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  57. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:38

    I would hope not. Isn't it a good thing if this is leading to more?

    ReplyDelete
  58. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:40

    I don't think they are building some crescendo with him.


    I think that's the main ending for all of this story. I think it's probably going to change Dean for good.

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  59. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:43

    I much preferred Kripke's take on the show, the characters, and most esp. the relationship btw the brothers.


    To me most of this is what Kripke set up. Kripke is the one who had Sam and Dean, and everyone around them, say their relationship was toxic and wrong. He had them do terrible things for each other and to each other, and then talk about how wrong it was.


    The biggest difference is he would have some moment where they would say, essentially, it's all OK, because even though we've said it's sick and toxic, they love each other, the end.


    I don't think the heart of the relationship is there anymore, and I think Carver really screwed it up when he had Sam not look for Dean, but episodes like last night's were to me very very Kripke Sam/Dean. Right down to Gadreel claiming Sam said this and said that.

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  60. Peter J416 April 2014 at 05:54

    As is often the case, I don't have the same nostalgia for the good old days of Sam and Dean that most here have, because the "good old days" for me ended after season 2. No one can damage that bond for me as much as Kripke did. Ever.


    I also don't think this episode just had Dean "rubbing his arm." Considering that the mark was a relatively small part of the episode, I thought that they managed to show Dean's bloodlust and how much he's losing himself. The shot of Dean beside Gadreel's unconscious body, blood on his hands, lost, was chilling.


    Now as for the rest:


    - I thought it was sluggish and choppy
    - I thought Robbie did a better job with Cas than he usually does
    - Too much Metatron talking. Say what you will about Bruckner and Ross-Lemming, they knew that Metatron works best in small doses - that's when he is at his most frightening.
    - The characterization for Gadreel was confusing. Wasn't he looking for redemption? I get that he's moved on from that but what is he now? Does he just want to die? Is he going to make a move on Metatron?
    - Gabriel's return wasn't too bad. It was better than I would have expected. They brought him back seemingly as a lie, but then he made it clear at the end that he likely is actually out there somewhere.
    - I agree with those who said the episode didn't actually go anywhere, but I still thought it was OK.


    I'd give it a B or a B-.

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  61. Gustavo16 April 2014 at 06:05

    Boo-ooh i'm sorry yours feelings are hurt, princess

    ReplyDelete
  62. Kevin16 April 2014 at 06:08

    This is probably the best episode so far this season for me. Really great stuff and good writing for once.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Donna C16 April 2014 at 06:08

    Did I say my feelings were hurt? No, I just thanked you for calling me "Spam". I think it's going to be my new Nickname here, actually.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Gustavo16 April 2014 at 06:09

    You're a true Spam in supernatural posts, that's perfect!

    ReplyDelete
  65. Donna C16 April 2014 at 06:27

    Along with the rest of us who don't agree with you!

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  66. JJ THE EXPAT16 April 2014 at 06:38

    I was really hoping that this episode was going to be okay since we're approaching the end of the season but instead we get another pointless episode. Instead of concentrating on Abaddon, they're concentrating on that douche Metatron. If they don't get rid of that character by the end of the season, I'm done.

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  67. JJ THE EXPAT16 April 2014 at 06:41

    Because it was a pointless episode that didn't really further the storyline. Metatron sucks as a villain. The whole masterpiece theater theme was so bad that it was insulting. I also find the whole angel storyline a little dull in general.

    ReplyDelete
  68. JJ THE EXPAT16 April 2014 at 06:42

    I didn't like it either. I think I'd much rather they cut the season down to twelve episodes but have a whole arc rather than pointless fillers.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Aline16 April 2014 at 08:26

    I've no idea what's going on in the show any more. Did Gadreel really kill all those angels or was that just some story construct for Castiel to get him on board with being the leader? Why on earth is Castiel being chosen to be their leader? Seriously, Castiel tried to open Purgatory to get souls, believed he was God and killed masses of angels, but he's the one they want to lead them! Is it because Castiel is the only angel whose name the audience can actually remember at this stage?


    What's Gadreels story, if he has one? Didn't he want redemption? I'm seriously hoping for a switch in sides from him so that he's the one who is ultimately responsible for putting the angels back in heaven. It would be rather poetic consider he's the one who is being given sole blame for 'everythin'. That way Castiel can stay behind and hunt with Dean while Sam resumes his (sole) role of being hairy wallpaper for the rest of the season, and probably next season.


    Sm was pointless in this episode, again. And considering that Dean has now absolved himself of any responsibility in the Gadreel situation and put the blame solely on Gadreel (unfortunately not the first time Dean has absolved himself and passed the buck when he has done something untoward) it's probable that any attempt to look at Sam as a character who thoughts and feelings are valid, and not just as a piece of Dean's property is also at an end. Pity, the few scant moments we had of it were nice. Unfortunately, multiple scenes highlighting Deans woobie face and scowley face must always take precedence on this show. That anyone else on the show actually has valid thoughts, feeling and concerns doesn't even come into the equation any more.

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  70. maloose16 April 2014 at 08:44

    I liked the ep, nothing serious happened but we got to see Cas, know what the hell Matatron's doing (why did he even lock the heaven when he still wanted to stay on earth?!), have more in-depth of Dean's inner conflicts, and of course more concerned side glances from Sam (What happened to the show when sth as simple as a concerned glance warms my heart?!! Brothers!)

    I think this ep was kinda boring, too much Metatron (he's starting to creep me out) and Gadreel completely disappointed me, but I guess he was too unstable to have a fixed character.
    But I think a big part of this ep failure was the director's fault, the pace was bad, Gabriel scenes looked too fake, the ending music was absolutely AWFUL and well, it was the usual rough dry directing way of SPN.

    I really hope they don't try to wrap everything in 3 eps, I'd rather agonize the whole summer over the suspense than be treated like an idiot!

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  71. Peter J416 April 2014 at 09:07

    The writers come off not only as incompetent but as arrogant too, thinking that the pitiful writing they put out is what is keeping the show going!


    I was just curious - have they said this? That they're the reason the show keeps going, not Jared or Jensen or anyone else?


    If they have said it, I agree, that's arrogant. I hadn't heard them say it, but then, there's a lot I don't follow in social media.

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  72. Peter J416 April 2014 at 09:09

    Why on earth is Castiel being chosen to be their leader? Seriously, Castiel tried to open Purgatory to get souls, believed he was God and killed masses of angels, but he's the one they want to lead them! Is it because Castiel is the only angel whose name the audience can actually remember at this stage?

    Cas is the one who was seeking out Metatron. Keep in mind that the angels who are following Cas are angels who were doing their best to hide. They were sought out and slaughtered. Cas is the one who tried to help them. He killed Bartholomew, who was torturing and killing this group of angels. He again showed up to help this group (or what was left of them).

    They don't have time to pick and choose who should be the leader.

    What's Gadreels story, if he has one? Didn't he want redemption?

    I also wondered about this. We didn't get any of this in the episode (shocker), but I am just going with the likelihood of him being angry and hurt over what happened in Road Trip, and lashing out blindly as a result. His reaction to Metatron at the end makes me wonder if he will flip.

    And considering that Dean has now absolved himself of any responsibility in the Gadreel situation and put the blame solely on Gadreel



    I think Dean still blames himself. He said he'd burn in Hell for it.

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  73. Peter J416 April 2014 at 09:10

    I thought the last song was great. One of my favorites in a while. It was the loud background music earlier in the episode that bothered me.


    I agree about the bad pacing. What else is new, sadly. It's been like this for a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Aline16 April 2014 at 09:25

    "I think Dean still blames himself. He said he'd burn in Hell for it."

    If only I could believe that, Peter J4, but I don't. We seen Dean thinking he didn't do anything wrong, we've seen him say he'd do it again, we've seen him believe that Sam doesn't care about him because he wouldn't do the same thing as Dean did.

    Add to that, we have a long history of the show not making Dean accountable when he does things big or when he says or does things that affect others. His role in starting the Apocalypse has been completely whitewashed over with sole blame now being put on, and accepted by, Sam. His actions last season re Benny, why he kept him secret etc were never given the time of day. We got no explanation as to why he didn't try to get Castiel out of Purgatory despite knowing where he was etc. Even this season, there were no acknowledgement or explanation as to why Dean thought Mrs. Tran as dead, and so prevented Kevin from looking for her. This was after Crowley told him that she was alive. Jeez, when Sam believed Dean was dead he was ripped apart for it.

    At this stage (again) it's too late to go back and address how Dean's words and actions etc have affected Sam. The show hasn't done that for years despite Dean saying and doing things that are much worse than anything Sam has said or done. Dean is written as the hero of the story so he doesn't have to do atonement and they've written him far too sympathetically to now go and condemn (or even give him a slap of the wrist) for what he did to his brother.

    ReplyDelete
  75. comicfangirl16 April 2014 at 10:07

    Didn't you know that these days fan means even more whining and bitching about everything then ever before, just because the I-Net gives you an audience? LOL

    The spamming hate in the comments here is so cute and funny to read, paired with the repeated shown incompetence of some posters to simply stop watching what they no longer enjoy. But to each their own.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Ross16 April 2014 at 10:07

    What happened that made it clear Gabe is likely still around? My attention to this episode came and went quite a bit so I think I probably missed it.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Peter J416 April 2014 at 10:20

    As Gabriel was about to disappear, Cas asked him if he was really dead. Gabriel sort of wagged his eyebrows and made a face, basically saying he probably wasn't.


    Then on Twitter, RSJ and Robbie Thompson also said he wasn't.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Ross16 April 2014 at 10:24

    Regardless of what show it is or how badly an episode is, the awesome bar is always above 50%. Usually it's above 60%. So to be honest I'd use the comments to gage people's reaction, as it's the poll that is usually the thing that is spammed.

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  79. Ross16 April 2014 at 10:26

    Such a shame. I was so hoping that Gabriel would come back and lead heaven, ending the Angel story lines once and for all.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Ross16 April 2014 at 10:29

    Cheers! There's hope left for my ideal storyline where Gabe leads heaven and angels are never seen from in the show again! Haha.

    ReplyDelete
  81. comicfangirl16 April 2014 at 10:37

    Seconded!
    All the angels should return to heaven, and should stay there for the next millennia and mind their own business.

    *sigh* Wishful thinking I guess.

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  82. comicfangirl16 April 2014 at 10:40

    I think Gabe was brought back to make it clear, that with Metatron
    playing God and manning the typewriter, everything has become
    flexible....life, death, resurrection....all that can be changed in the
    blink of an eye as Metatron wills it to get his entertaining story.

    So
    yes, Gabe can still be hiding somewhere having created another "witness
    protection program" for himself and just appeared to Cas, or Metatron
    just used his image to trick Cas.

    Since Gabe is an expert in hiding, I guess he just faked his death and is still out there biding his time.



    Based on some Tweets from last week I do believe Gabe might be seen again around the season finale this year.

    TO BE CONTINUED is the word on all this, I guess.

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  83. Ross16 April 2014 at 10:49

    There's no harm in wishful thinking. I will cling on to it for as long as I can!

    ReplyDelete
  84. Ginger16 April 2014 at 12:35

    I am not a fan of Thompson as a writer either, because he writes for support characters; not the Winchesters. Personally, I think the writers/producers on social media is harmful, because they get an inflated opinion of themselves and because they get a skewed view of what the majority of the fans want. It matters not to me whether they have good manners or not. What I want is some creativity, a good story with good plotting and pacing, and some interest in telling a story about the Winchesters. As I said, with a tiny bit of re-write, both the Js could have had these eight filming days off and it would not have changed whatever it was the episode was meant to do.

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  85. klutzy_girl16 April 2014 at 12:53

    I knew they were lying about Richard not appearing (they hammered it in a little too hard), but I didn't think it'd be this episode! Hopefully Gabriel is alive and coming back.


    Aw at Cas understanding a popular culture reference. That was awesome!


    Great episode.

    ReplyDelete
  86. rehabber16 April 2014 at 13:36

    Season 8 just did not happen(for me I will never watch it again) but since it was the worse, this season has been better for me. Like you the first years were the best and I have watched them to many times to count. I miss the "family business and brother love" that was what drew me to the show, but I have made the Winchesters part of my family so will try and ride this out.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Michele Klinger16 April 2014 at 13:37

    Is it bad that as soon as I saw Casa Erotica pop up, I thought of Gabriel? And then, I was like, no...that makes no sense...BUT THEN IT HAPPENED!

    ReplyDelete
  88. Ross16 April 2014 at 13:39

    It still bothers me that about 70% of the writers haven't actually watched that many episodes from before they started working there.

    ReplyDelete
  89. rehabber16 April 2014 at 13:39

    You said you did not know Sam any longer, I can go further than that and say last season I did NOT want to know him. He was not the Sam of the first 7 years and I did not even like him.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Ross16 April 2014 at 13:41

    We've had some form of angel v angel storyline for about 5 years now. I'm over it. They've done it to death at this point. Let's keep Cas but I'd be happy if Angels were never mentioned on the show again after this season wraps up.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Ross16 April 2014 at 13:42

    Well said.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Ross16 April 2014 at 13:45

    Honestly I'd rather they wrapped it up quickly and start with a fresh storyline next year. I'm bored of the Angel storylines, Metatron sucks as a villain. I don't mind Crowley and Abbadon though, but I don't think it could carry another season.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Ross16 April 2014 at 13:46

    This seasons plot progression is freaking glacial.

    ReplyDelete
  94. SPN Fickle16 April 2014 at 14:15

    Gabriel was by far the best part of the episode for me. I am quite tired of angels killing each other... But, I didn't mind the Chuck reminders and throwing the Supernatural book out seemed to fit. Even though this episode had very little of the brothers in it, to me, it felt like Supernatural if I ignore the hateful things Gadreel was spouting about Sam's feelings.

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  95. Audrey16 April 2014 at 14:19

    I really really hated it. I was so bored during all the talk between Cass and Gabriel and was just waiting for the end. FOr me it was the worse episode since Bitten.
    I really don't like the angels storyline, nothing happens during these episodes.
    Funny how I used to love the trickster but as soon as he became Gabriel, I lost interest in him.
    I usually like the meta episode, but here as soon as Metatron said he was going to give US what we want, I knew Gabriel wasn't really here, I feared right away we would get a destiel scene and 30 seconds later, we got the "how are you" from Cass to Dean, it was so fake and only to please the destiel fans.
    Well not everyone what to watch supernatural turned into a ship.
    Good for all of you who got what they wanted, not my case at all. What I want is Sam and Dean to reconcile and saving people, hunting things, the family business.
    I voted awful for the second time in the history of supernatural.

    ReplyDelete
  96. spnrules116 April 2014 at 14:53

    I really hope it is wrapped up at the end of the Season. I am not really impressed with the MoC storyline. As you said it could have been done differently and that includes giving us way more Sam insight/POV. How Dean is feeling is no secret so let's move on with it. He is at his low point and everything he has ever felt is now coming to a head because of the mark. Dean brooding is nothing new.


    Personally, I felt Sam got robbed of his moment with Gadreel as well. Dean sends him off so we end up seeing how the mark is effecting him and he gets to take it out on Gadreel. I called that one 3 weeks ago. I am all for killing Abaddon, Sam saving Dean and moving on to something new for S10.

    ReplyDelete
  97. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:10

    That about says it all in regards to Sam and Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  98. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:13

    Not that they will but I have no doubt they can. There is not much to address on the Sam front because he has no story to speak of. If I had to choose any of those stories moving on it would be the boys defeating Metatron since he said he will have fun watching them try. They can wrap up the MoC and killing Abaddon story in the last 3 episodes.

    ReplyDelete
  99. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:15

    Well said. Sam should have been given his true moment with Gadreel but alas it went to Dean. I knew they were going to do that 3 weeks ago.

    ReplyDelete
  100. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:16

    Sam's hallucination story really could have been told so much better. Jared and Mark P. were so great in their scenes and then the "instal-fix." It really was a shame.

    ReplyDelete
  101. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:18

    I am glad Jensen said that. I am probably in the minority that I want the MoC s/l over by the end of S9 but I hope it happens and that Dean does learn a valuable lesson once that story is over. Guilty Dean is old. Give me badass hunter Dean back.

    ReplyDelete
  102. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:19

    You are definitely right about that.

    ReplyDelete
  103. spnrules116 April 2014 at 15:19

    You are not alone. I feel the same way. :)

    ReplyDelete
  104. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 15:44

    Yes, but he also had a way to make a light of a situation that he isn't anymore. Jensen even talked about it. It's going to get way worse and unlike some fans I'm not looking forward to it. I just miss DEAN. (And well, SAM, too)

    ReplyDelete
  105. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 15:46

    I don't think I would enjoy it in any way, to be honest. I just.... I just love Dean the way he was. I never, ever wanted him to change, in any way. I know some fans wanted, that's their right. I just don't share the feelings.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 15:47

    Thank you. :o)

    ReplyDelete
  107. rehabber16 April 2014 at 15:48

    I voted Awesome because: Sam was almost back to old Sam that worried about Dean. Love Gabriel, enjoyed Metatron trying to be God and "Chuck" writing a new book of Winchester. I liked Chuck much better. Liked the music at the end and wondering if Cas(yes I use one s because it is short for Castiel which only has one s) is going to lead his flock to slaughter. I liked the directing on this ep. And I have always enjoyed the Angel story, season 4 is my favorite season.

    ReplyDelete
  108. lala216 April 2014 at 15:49

    Apparently they have on Twitter. I don't tweet but that's what I've read. I think there is a recent Adam Glass tweet and/or interview that references this.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 15:54

    It was named after "Carver" because it was a meta joke, not because Supernatural was indeed Carver's work, especially because he wasn't even there at the beginning. I don't think there is any doubt that Kripke is the creator of the show and it was his work.

    If we're being accurate, then Kripke threw those books in the trash in season 4 and never looked back.

    Errr, no. Kripke wasn't perfect and there were some canon problems back then, too hence my original comment. But there were nothing, nothing compared to what Jeremy Carver is doing since he took over.

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  110. lala216 April 2014 at 16:00

    That was the point. It wasn't what he would really say. It was a parody.

    Whatever it was . . . it was annoying and took me straight out of the episode.

    That's not the whole story.
    I disagree. That has been the whole story for me. In the previous episode, Dean was drinking in a bar. In this episode, Dean's in the shower, brooding and feeling bad. We didn't even get to see him torture Gadreel, which could have provided some forward movement w/the story. We just saw the aftermath. So, again, Dean is seen brooding.
    You say everything about Dean is changing, and I ask how do you know that? How do we even know what the MOC is doing to him?

    I'm over it. I want to move onto the next stage of the story!

    ReplyDelete
  111. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 16:00

    Very well said. I felt the same way.

    ReplyDelete
  112. lala216 April 2014 at 16:02

    I am too, but I hate when the writers start a story and then tell it poorly. That has happened way too often in this series. The MOC story may go down as yet another poorly told story!

    ReplyDelete
  113. lala216 April 2014 at 16:08

    Me too! I wish they'd all return to Heaven and the show would move onto some new stories.

    ReplyDelete
  114. lala216 April 2014 at 16:12

    I agree. Ever since S7, I've been thinking this show would benefit from following the cable tv show model of 13-16 episodes. With fewer episodes, there would hopefully be less filler and a tighter story all around.
    I don't mind filler, but ever since S7, the filler has been bad, IMO. It's not even entertaining filler like it used to be. It's pointless, boring filler. I honestly feel this episode qualifies as "pointless filler" too. None of the stories were advances much. It's like the writers are twiddling their thumbs until the last 2-3 episodes. Something of import might actually happen then. SMH!

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  115. lala216 April 2014 at 16:14

    Actually they probably do, but just not well.
    It will be crap like practically everything about this show lately!

    ReplyDelete
  116. lala216 April 2014 at 16:31

    Yeah, early S8 Sam is hard to understand and/or like.

    ReplyDelete
  117. spnrules116 April 2014 at 17:15

    I know what you mean. HCW is one of my all time favorite episodes. You are definitely right they did not need MP the whole time to show what Sam was experience over the season not in a few episodes. MP was perfect in the episodes he was in. This is why at this stage of the game we should be getting way more Sam insight/POV not just strictly Dean arc/insight/POV.


    I adore Dean but I am over his depressive, broody self. He is such a great character and to constantly be watching him like that is old. I personally liked parts of S8 but S9 has now got to be my least favorite season.

    ReplyDelete
  118. João Paulo16 April 2014 at 19:53

    Metatron is the most powerful enemy that Sam and Dean faces, he manipulate everything and I want to see how they will kill him and how the all demon war between Crowley and Abadon will fitting in.




    I like the episode, but I hope they made a big season finale like the amazing cliffhanger of season 8.

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  119. Emily16 April 2014 at 20:43

    To me this episode was like a big f you to all of the people who ever actually gave a rats ass about this show. I'm sure it's not 100% like this, but I'm so pissed off about this season and what this show has become. Gabriel comes on the screen and is like "I'm going to lead." At that point, I was excited because this is what I wanted to happen. Then Metatron has to come on and basically tell the fans to shut up because they can do whatever they want. They're saying "hey we make continuity errors and retcon things, but this is our show". The point that tipped me over the goddamn boat was when Gadreel told Dean that Sam wouldn't save him or whatever. I thought whatever and it seemed like Dean had the same reaction. Then he had the nerve to pretty much tell him every time he said he wanted to save him, he was lying because he has always felt this way. Stop trashing Sam's character! Something has to change and I don't know how.

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  120. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:50

    Sure, people said it was toxic, but I never felt it was toxic or a problem until
    Carver came on as showrunner. That's the difference. And Sam and Dean never bought into the idea that their relationship was toxic.


    Under Carver, it's clear that the characters think their relationship is toxic, which switches up the entire dynamic of the show. There's a huge difference btw Kripke and Carver.


    I felt like Dean made comments which suggested he knew their relationship was bad and wrong ("you're my weak spot", for instance, not long before he died at the end of season 3 - begging Sam not to make the mistakes he had made based on unhealthy relationships)

    To me, Carver isn't saying their relationship has to be toxic, but that the one they have most clung to is toxic, and that can change. I don't think it's been that well-expressed, but I think that's where he is going. And while I don't care for the writing, I can relate to that more than Kripke, where he basically said they would do nothing but hurt each other and burn the world, and that's wrong, but wait, they love each other, so that's what counts.

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  121. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:52

    It depends on the season, for me. For most of seasons 6-7 and the back half of 3 and 5 I thought he had become very broken and dark, and most of his humor was short-lived. I think he did have some humor in the first half of this season, and that's changed as he's become more depressed and losing control.

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  122. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:53

    If all of Dean's brooding is supposed to reflect his desire to kill then I think the writers are doing a horrible job of conveying that.

    I don't think it's about desire to kill as much as it's about lack of a filter. Dean used to have rules on what he would or wouldn't do. He had very strong self-control, because he had to - if he didn't, then bad things would happen, because he's a very, very scary guy. I think that the Ghostfacers episode and last night's episode sort of showed this.

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  123. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:54

    Jensen has also said he's really enjoyed this story, especially compared to most of what he's had over the years.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:55

    I think Dean's story has been surprisingly well-paced by Supernatural standards. The rest is the same mixed bag as everything since season 3 or 5.

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  125. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:56

    I think it's very much about Dean. Dean's sense of worthlessness and self-loathing in particular. That's why he took the mark. It was a conscious choice. Sam had no choice. The story was about something grafted onto him and all he could do was react.

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  126. Peter J416 April 2014 at 20:57

    I'm pretty sure this season will be the end for Metatron (just my guess). I don't think it's about Metatron as much as what Metatron is doing and the consequences of that. I feel like this will be wrapped up, and maybe Abaddon, but Cain and Crowley and the mark won't.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Peter J416 April 2014 at 21:00

    Errr, no. Kripke wasn't perfect and there were some canon problems back then, too hence my original comment. But there were nothing, nothing compared to what Jeremy Carver is doing since he took over.

    To me, things like Dark Side of the Moon (leading to all the fan speculation that John beat Dean, all that stuff implying John and Mary were already in a very bad place before he died) did more to trash canon in a bad way than what Carver has done, because I thought it destroyed or heavily damaged basic tenets of the show.

    It was named after "Carver" because it was a meta joke, not because Supernatural was indeed Carver's work, especially because he wasn't even there at the beginning.



    That's true. I guess it's the whole idea of Carver destroying history because he threw a book that was in part bearing his name. It baffles me. I don't see it as some grand statement about the meaningless of canon. Any more than I see Kripke using meta Chuck to make fun of fans and fan theories meaning that Kripke hated fans.

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  128. Peter J416 April 2014 at 21:01

    Most cable shows can't even pull off 13-16 episodes. They have tons of filler.


    The problem with "filler" is that it has many different forms to many different fans. For instance, some fans would insist ANY episode without Cas or angels is filler. I don't agree with that, but that's a wide fan view.

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  129. Peter J416 April 2014 at 21:09

    I don't think they were saying Sam actually felt that way. Gadreel was trying to get Dean to kill him.


    If they were going to use someone to tell fans to be quiet, do you think they would use a horrible monster like Metatron? I think he was a parody of a writer and a writer's neuroses, not a message to fans.

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  130. Emily16 April 2014 at 22:48

    I see what you're saying, but I'm tired of the way this show has been heading. This whole angel things blows. The rivalry between Abaddon and Crowley is so interesting. Metatron and Gadreel show up to waste an entire episode dicking around. Plus, we have the stupid spin-off coming up. It's just not going anywhere. I'm hoping someone can come in and save the show and steer the ship in the right direction. I was on board with what Sam was saying about changing their relationship. However, this brother rift needs to stop or at least progress. I know he was trying to make him mad, but that doesn't mean that he had to be lying. They're not really showing us that he's wrong either.

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  131. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 23:23

    You do have a point about "Dark Side" and I would mention "My Bloody Valentine", not to mention "Jump the Shark". I didn't like it either, but for me it wasn't as drastic as it was for you, especially because I never thought very highly of John. Like I said, Kripke wasn't perfect, but for me he never trashed his own canon like Carver is doing.

    For me personally nothing beat the made up rule of the brothers agreeing to never LOOK for each other if they disappeared (which, in their line of work won't ever make sense), which caused the brothers fake conflict and it's follow up, the full Hell/Purgatory canon trashing in Taxi Driver and now Demons just taking souls as they wish, making people soulless (which for Carver means nuts), denying the whole concept of demons deals. Damn! If only Azazel knew that it was this easy!

    This was only to mention a few. There are so many Lol!Canon going on since Carver took over that I really can't agree with you.

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  132. maloose16 April 2014 at 23:27

    Actually I don't think Gadreel said anything new re. the brothers, Sam had said before all their troubles and screw-ups were b/c they have tried to save each other and b/c Dean is selfish and clingy!!! And I KNOW it's all crap. Here it seemed to me Gad was telling what he concluded from Sam's thoughts and Dean's own fears. He was provoking them but he was saying (and probably magnifying) what he believed to be the truth.

    Right then, I don't think anyone knew what Sam meant by those words, Jared believed Sam was trying to hurt Dean as a retaliation, some people said this relationship is toxic and it was the first step to end it,... I guess all the writers and cast were waiting to see what papa Carver would reveal in his magnificent script of the final, like what he did in Sacrifice!!!

    ReplyDelete
  133. Peter J416 April 2014 at 23:38

    I understand what you mean (I'd like to see more Abaddon too). I have a feeling most of the Metatron and Gadreel story is winding down. I don't think both of them will make it out of the season alive. Frankly I think they both might die.

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  134. Peter J416 April 2014 at 23:42

    I guess for me canon trashing mostly started in earlier years - I feel like once Kripke decided to bring in the angels, that meant they rewrote things. The angels were completely rewritten between seasons 4 and 5. The rules of a suitable vessel were completely rewritten at the end of season 5 after over a full season claiming that Dean was the only acceptable vessel.


    I don't mind canon changes as much as I mind them being meaningless, or as much as I mind characterization or plotting issues. That's what bothered me most with Kripke. And sometimes it still bothers me now. I think they've done a lot of wrong to Sam, especially in early season 8. I guess it's just that what they did with Dean and Sam and their history in seasons 4 and 5 was such a departure from the brother relationship and family I'd known, and it felt so random (until that Mary/Dean scene in Dark Side there had been on indication that Mary and John were ever having huge marital problems, or that John had abandoned his family - and then it was never even mentioned again; I was never really much of a John fan, but I thought he deserved better than that, as did the show's history), and I still don't get it.

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  135. Miss Supernatural16 April 2014 at 23:48

    I don't really fully disagree with your points, but I really think Carver is destroying canon in a worst way and trying to re-write pretty much everything disconsidering everything written before he came in. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about it. :)

    ReplyDelete
  136. Emily16 April 2014 at 23:54

    Thanks for the insight on Jared's perspective. I think I'll go with what he believes. I just wish I could see what attracted me to this show other than mythology, the brothers' relationship. I miss the Impala talks. Maybe Jody will set them straight next week and Sam won't look like the "bad guy" in all of this.

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  137. lala217 April 2014 at 02:36

    It depends on the show. I think some cable shows pull this off very well. Supernatural needs to give it a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  138. lala217 April 2014 at 02:53

    Yeah . . . I'm not seeing a lack of a filter. To me, his killing of that guy in GF was completely justified, and he stopped himself from killing Gadreel so I'm not seeing a problem.

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  139. lala217 April 2014 at 02:59

    I didn't interpret Dean's "You're my weak spot, Sam" as an acknowledgment that his relationship w/Sam was bad or wrong. I saw that as Dean acknowledging that the bad guys know that they can get to Dean by hurting or targeting Sam. Under Kripke, I never felt Sam and Dean had a bad/toxic relationship. I never felt Sam or Dean felt they had a bad/toxic relationship.



    Carver has done a remarkable job at annihilating the Sam/Dean relationship, and in particular, Sam as a character. He has done more damage to this series than any other showrunner, IMO. His reign has been awful!

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  140. SPN Fickle17 April 2014 at 03:42

    I was soooo excited by HCW. Sam finally remembered Hell and Dean was the only one that could help him. I thought together they could heal each other.... After that Incredible scene in the warehouse, poof. Sam's fine. Just push on his palm and all the crazy goes away. No more interaction necessary.

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  141. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 04:01

    Adam Glass 'took a break from twitter' about a week go after he received negative fandom flack
    over his stance that CreationCon was 'disrepecting' the writers by offering to pay 'them' (HIM) a lower amount than guest stars to attend Cons. And last
    night Robbie Thompson was live-tweeting, crowing and patting himself on
    the back for writing 9.18. I'm not a fan of the writers having twitter/tumblr accounts - it's too easy to believe they allow themselves to be influenced by pushiest few fans who are often not reflective of the opinions of the majority of Supernatural fans.

    ReplyDelete
  142. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 04:11

    - I thought it was sluggish and choppy
    I was not impressed at all with the directing or the editing - I would say 9.18 was jerky, then sluggish, then jerky and so forth. And the same director is doing the season finale.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Hellboy17 April 2014 at 04:25

    And the book that he actual threw in the fire was Tall Tales, the Trickster first appearance. Who was then retconned into being Gabriel, pretty much throwing away the canon of that episode.

    ReplyDelete
  144. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 04:26

    Yeah I read that some areas on the east coast had technical problems that could have contributed to the low ratings. I live in the CWPhilly area and my pixelated briefly then recovered.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Hellboy17 April 2014 at 04:26

    Except when it came to angels in season 4.

    ReplyDelete
  146. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 04:27

    Claps!

    ReplyDelete
  147. Hellboy17 April 2014 at 04:29

    It was Gabriel filtered through Chuck, then filtered through Metatron.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Hellboy17 April 2014 at 04:33

    Adam Glass made a joke in an interview where he talked about how SPN was always on the bubble and now it has a season 10, and again joking saying the show could become the Doctor Who of America, take Sam and Dean as long as Jared and Jensen want and then tell a story about two other hunters.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Hellboy17 April 2014 at 04:37

    Thing with CreationCon, they bilk people out of a lot of money, and they apparently are able to clear a sizable profit for a weekend. So I can only assume that what they offered the writers was obscenely low. And you know what, I would be more interested in attending a con that had the writers and producer there, instead an actor who was in an episode once. I have to side with Adam on this one.

    ReplyDelete
  150. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 04:43

    Was Sam his palm scar in S7 supposed to be a story, lol?

    Seriously I speculate some of the MOC storyline will carry over into S10 - what I mean is I spec that Dean will still have the Mark until he kills Cain or doesn't kill Cain but finds some other way of finding peace for Cain. Maybe Dean kills Abaddon this season or early next... maybe Crowley takes over Abaddon's 'Demon Soul Army' and tries to control Dean just as Magnus was able to control him. Just speculations on where the MOC sl might go. Like spnrules I wish Sam had more of a role to play ... with Gadreel at least. I want Sam to be the bro who ultimately decides what to do with Gadreel... this entire season has been wayout of balance.

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  151. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 05:07

    I'm not taking sides I'm just reporting - there were multiple, valid comments that AG 'publicly posted' his 'feud with Creation' rather than discussing it privately with his agent (if he has one) and Creation to gain unanimous SPNFandomTwitterverse sympathy and he didn't get it. I also read comments (on twitter) that when a few writers (I don't recall who) were invited to Cons in the past their sessions were not well attended.

    ReplyDelete
  152. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 05:31

    The rules of a suitable vessel were completely rewritten at the end of
    season 5 after over a full season claiming that Dean was the only
    acceptable vessel.
    From 5.13 The song remains the same
    DEAN
    I guess they oversold me being your one and only vessel.
    MICHAEL (Young John)
    You're my true vessel but not my only one.
    DEAN
    What is that supposed to mean?
    MICHAEL
    It's a bloodline.
    (This is why Adam was an acceptable vessel, even though show was clear that Adam was 'plan B'; yet I get that for many fans it rankles that Jensen never got to play Michael)

    I disagree that the show threw out all the rules

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  153. CyanaT17 April 2014 at 05:44

    I loved MTNB and HCW... I was very excited how S7 started. I don't care much for Cas but MC did a great job as LeviaCas. The show should have kept MC as the head Leviathan (used sparingly) throughout S7 and then Cas could be rescued/separated from the head Leviathan AND sent to Purgatory with Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Hellboy17 April 2014 at 06:23

    That sucks to hear. Again because like I said, I know I would be interested in asking questions/hearing from the writers/producers than a guest star.

    ReplyDelete
  155. ViKi17 April 2014 at 09:28

    Oh, please... PLEASE. Sam choose Ruby over Dean and got free Lucifer and never felt bad about it. He left Dean root in the Purgatory and didn't care about it. Hell, Sam doesn't care about anything he have done. 'Weee, my bad brother forced me to liiiive'. I was with Sam after all the Gadreel fiasco, but his attitude has been so childish that I just want to get over it already. They're brothers, they're no perfect, they fail each other, but they are all what they got. Damn it!

    ReplyDelete
  156. Audrey17 April 2014 at 11:50

    Sam won't look like the bad guy, he will look like the damsel in distress who needs saving by the guest star of the episode. That's all he does nowadays !

    ReplyDelete
  157. Aline17 April 2014 at 14:46

    Sam went with Ruby because he needed her to get to Lilith, which he, Dean and Bobby believed was necessary in order to stop Lucifer from rising. Sam asked Dean to go with them, and Dean said no. Dean and Bobby were preparing to kill Lilith when Sam was locked up in the Panic Room. Sam didn't 'got free Lucifer' all by himself. The angels broke 64 seals and Dean himself broke the first one, something that has been completely forgotten/ignored by most people, Dean (and yourself) included. You really should watch season 5 again if you believe he 'never felt bad about it'.


    Sam believed Dean was dead, he didn't try to bring him back (as they had agreed). He didn't leave him rot in Purgatory because he didn't know that he was in Purgatory.


    Sam cares about what he has done. He cares enough to atone for what he did and take measures to not do it again, unlike Dean who has freely said that he would take the same course of action again, despite know that his brother wouldn't want it.


    I don't believe at any stage that Sam said 'Weee, my bad brother forced me to liiive', could you point me towards the episode where he said that?


    In what way has his attitude been childish? He hasn't stropped off, he hasn't refused to speak to Dean, he hasn't spent half the season kicking Dean down or shoving what he did in his face, he told Dean that he wouldn't do the same as Dean did in the same circumstances. In what way is that childish? Admittedly, he didn't say 'Dean, it's perfectly okay that you tricked me, shoved an angel and a demon in me, had me mindwiped constantly and made me believe I was losing my mind, not to mention the fabulous round of torture you subjected me to. Feel free to do it again. After all, I've been violated my entire like, first by YED, then Meg, then Lucifer. Why shouldn't you take a shot? It's not as if my autonomy or my right to give consent as to what should be done to my body is of any importance.' Is this the kind of 'maturity' you're looking for from Sam? Jeez, Dean punched Sam in the head when Sam took the car without Dean's permission, but you think Sam is childish because he's not prepared to accept the same thing should happen to him again? Pretty strange definition of 'childish' you've got going there, Viki.


    I'm aware they fail each other. It's just unfortunate that only one brother acknowledges that, the other denies it or believes that he has the right to do it again. In relation to 'they are all what they got', why is that of importance? Do you think that Sam should be perfectly okay with what was done to him because they are all they have? Well, if that's the case then perhaps they should think about finding someone else. If you were in a bad relationship would you stick with it or would you try to make it better? And if it didn't get better then would you try to get out?

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  158. lala218 April 2014 at 00:46

    Thanks for pointing this out. I never understood why people kept saying Dean was the ONLY vessel for Michael. He was never the ONLY one; he was just the BEST (i.e., true) vessel. The same w/Lucifer. He was clearly in Nick, but Sam was the better/true vessel.

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  159. lala218 April 2014 at 00:55

    Agreed. I even liked TGND. I liked the first three episodes of S7 a lot and thought we were headed for a pretty good season, but it all went downhill, IMO, after TGND.



    I also agree that LeviCas would have made a far more interesting villain than the horrible Bruce . . . was that his name? No . . . it was Dick Roman! Bruce was that Naomi knockoff Cas killed this year.



    Yeah . . the Leviathans were horrible enemies, but I think LeviCas would have made it more personal for the boys, which is what S7 lacked!

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  160. SPN Fickle18 April 2014 at 04:49

    I was on twitter trying to get an idea about what was happening. My 76 year old mother came out at 8pm for our weekly SPN get together. My sister brought food and we were all waiting eagerly for a new episode then it all fades away during the previews... About 12 or 13 minutes later it started coming back. I doubt many people waited through that...

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  161. CyanaT18 April 2014 at 05:51

    It's great that your family gets together to watch; I'm sorry you all were frustrated by the tech problems. I thought I was for a few moments, too, but the problem cleared up in under a minute. My affiliate has never been preempted during SPN time but I have had a couple of power outages because of severe weather and to watch the episode streamed the next day on the CW site.

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  162. CyanaT18 April 2014 at 21:28

    I guess I would, too, although a writer would have to be careful what he/she said during the season 1) not to give away unauthorized spoilers or 2) give a 'personal interpretation' of any character's motives, or 3) say anything that contradicts the showrunners' plans. Or other stuff that I can't think of at the moment.

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  163. CyanaT19 April 2014 at 00:16

    Yes, it irks me, too. There's been so many canon... umm... 'tweaks' that it's hard to keep track of when canon isn't 'tweaked'.

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  164. CyanaT19 April 2014 at 00:31

    I really liked TGND too but didn't bring it up because of the controversy it caused.

    Yeah, "LeviaCas" could have disappeared to the reservoir and in "Slash Fiction" he could have 'surfaced' with minor tweaks to Crowley's dialog. The boys and Bobby could have found out "LeviaCas' was alive in 7.09 and he could have shot Bobby. When Bobby died the boys would suffer the grief of Bobby's death and still try to recover 'Cas'. Almost the whole season could be the same except for finding a slight;y different weapon to kill (save) LeviaCas.

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  165. lala219 April 2014 at 05:37

    I liked TGND but not the unnecessary drama it started if that makes any sense. The episode, itself, was good, but that Amy lie was drama for the sake of drama and completely unnecessary. Plus,I didn't care for Dean's attitude in the psychic episode and felt there was no point to that Amy mess.


    LeviCas would have definitely been better than Dick Roman!

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  166. CyanaT19 April 2014 at 06:01

    Uggh ... The Mentalists, one of my least liked episodes of S7. A lot of fans liked it because 'the boys got back together' but I agree Dean's attitude was off and Sam backed down too easily. There were other problems including another 'Sam waits at car, Dean bonds with the PiPs' scene that always irritate me.

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  167. lala219 April 2014 at 15:43

    Agreed! For all his anger about Amy, Sam backed off quickly, and maybe it's just me, but I never quite understood why Sam was angry about Amy. He didn't seem to care that Dean killed her, but was angry that Dean lied about it I guess. I don't even remember. The ending to that whole mini-arc seemed stupid to me.

    Ugh . . . every moment that has Sam walking off so Dean can bond w/the guest star makes me cringe! It's freaking ridiculous, esp. when Sam does it w/people they BOTH know!

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  168. CyanaT20 April 2014 at 03:41

    I think Sam was upset with Dean because he killed Sam's friend - who had saved his life , but I agree more because Dean 1) didn't trust his judgment and except for going to deal with Amy on his own, Sam didn't make more wrong judgment decisions that season. And 2) you're right, Sam was really upset that Dean lied to his face and continued to lie until Levia!Dean outed the lie.(I <3 Slash Fiction!)

    The problem I saw with "Dean's lie" was that I couldn't see why he felt guilty about killing Amy (7.04) if he was convinced that it was the right thing to do. That was the secret he didn't want to spill even if he cost his life, which it came very close to doing. At worst case, the secret would have been exposed in 7.04, Sam would have been upset but would have got over it more quickly.

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  169. Lubbeelou25 April 2014 at 22:02

    I was really looking forward to having Gabriel lead the angels. The last bit with him in makes me think he's still alive? They could have had some fun with the trickster. Then all my dreams ended when we found out it was Metatron all along and now Cas seems to be going to the dark side AGAIN! As for Sam and Dean I wish they would just make up, Sam clearly hasn't felt that way through the entire show otherwise he wouldn't have gone to hell for Dean and saved him countless times. It makes me sad to see all the comments with people being disappointed. I said on another thread that I hope they get shut of the angel story soon it's been dragged out enough

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